DBWI: Turkish Constantinople

It seems that a year before WWI there was an unsuccessful assasination attempt on George I of Greece. What if it succeeds? His heir Constantine was a famous germanophile, and he probably would have stalled Greek enterance into the war on the side of Entente.
Would it be enough for Turkey to retain Constantinople at least nominally after the war or would Russia get it instead of Greece?
How would retaining at least part of their ethnically diverse territories as well as centuries old capital effect Turkey?
 
Doubtful - the Ottomans still joined the central powers, and with or without Greece joining the Allies from the outset, I doubt they let the Turks keep Constantinople. Maybe Greece still gets it, but it would be given as a table scrap, but taken as a war gain, and likely that would have an effect on the eventual borders in Anatolia/Turkey.

Lets assume the Greeks don't get it - there goes the restoration of the Byzantine Empire, and pretty much the last century of Greek/Byzantine history with it.

Does Turkey still join the Axis powers in WW2?
 
Doubtful - the Ottomans still joined the central powers, and with or without Greece joining the Allies from the outset, I doubt they let the Turks keep Constantinople. Maybe Greece still gets it, but it would be given as a table scrap, but taken as a war gain, and likely that would have an effect on the eventual borders in Anatolia/Turkey.

Lets assume the Greeks don't get it - there goes the restoration of the Byzantine Empire, and pretty much the last century of Greek/Byzantine history with it.

Does Turkey still join the Axis powers in WW2?
Doubtful. One of the major reasons they tagged along with the Nazis is because they wanted Constantinople back, and also because of Ottoman nostalgia. I think that if they kept Constantinople, they'd be much more quiet on the international stage. Greece wouldn't be double teamed by Italy and Turkey, and the internal conflict in the Axis between Turkey and Italy over Greece also wouldn't have happened. The Axis probably wouldn't go down as quickly as they did with Italy and Turkey squabbling.
 
Doubtful. One of the major reasons they tagged along with the Nazis is because they wanted Constantinople back, and also because of Ottoman nostalgia. I think that if they kept Constantinople, they'd be much more quiet on the international stage. Greece wouldn't be double teamed by Italy and Turkey, and the internal conflict in the Axis between Turkey and Italy over Greece also wouldn't have happened. The Axis probably wouldn't go down as quickly as they did with Italy and Turkey squabbling.

Hell, without the Byzantines/Greeks making the Italians and Turks pay for every mile in blood, and the resistance in the bits they took being a constant bloody sore, one wonders where those German, Italian or Turkish troops may have gone - maybe the Axis thrusts to the Middle East or through the Caucuses may have been more successful.

Hell, after the fall of France, it was the combo of the Brits beating back the blitz and the Byzies fighting to the last man along the Metaxas Line that kept the Allies in the fight, at least before the USA and the Soviets got tagged in.
 
No Byzantine resurrection, no push for all of the coast in the former ottoman areas, no push south for the north coast of africa (meaning Alexandria isn't in Byzie hands which i'd say is a pretty big deal since Alexandria is probably the most important city in the entire country after Constantinople).

Without Constantinople all of these go away.

Probably means Turkey doesn't join the Axis, means Egypt doesn't join the axis either to try take the northern coast and you don't have a country that spans 3 continents and holds 2 of the 3 most important cities in the world to Christianity and isn't a major power with a multi trillion dollar economy and instead you have the ottomans maybe in the position where they surge and make those huge gains into the middle east instead.

So yeah, i'd say a lot changes. I think Constantinople being retaken changed the fortunes of what could have been a falling empire, turned them into a resurgent one.
 
No Byzantine resurrection, no push for all of the coast in the former ottoman areas, no push south for the north coast of africa (meaning Alexandria isn't in Byzie hands which i'd say is a pretty big deal since Alexandria is probably the most important city in the entire country after Constantinople).

Without Constantinople all of these go away.

Probably means Turkey doesn't join the Axis, means Egypt doesn't join the axis either to try take the northern coast and you don't have a country that spans 3 continents and holds 2 of the 3 most important cities in the world to Christianity and isn't a major power with a multi trillion dollar economy and instead you have the ottomans maybe in the position where they surge and make those huge gains into the middle east instead.

So yeah, i'd say a lot changes. I think Constantinople being retaken changed the fortunes of what could have been a falling empire, turned them into a resurgent one.
Goddammit, not this again. Just because the Egyptians make Alexandria a special economic zone does NOT make it Greek. Sure, there are plenty of Greeks there, but I am tired of hearing people claim some economic agreements makes something Hellenic. i don't think the Greeks even claim that, and a lot of them find the Byzantine claims insulting. They know the Byzantines thought of themselves as Romans and denied being Greek. Besides, neither Alexandria or Constantinople have importance for just about any Christians besides maybe some Cops. Hell, JERUSALEM has no more than sentimental value.

Greece is a weak state. They aren't even centralized anymore. Their population was stretched thin trying to settle areas they kicked out Aromanenians, Pomaks, Turks, Muslim Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Armenians, and others from the mainland. There is a reason Greeks are kept limited visas in Alexandria these days. After their failed attacks on Rhodes, Albania, French Outre Mer, Palestine, Cyprus... Those Neo-Byzantine fuckers are lucky the Italians and Albanians didn't do more than split the Ionian Islands and set up the Republic of Epirus for the various dispossesed. Actually a good thing the Hellenic Eprirsians revolted in their favor. Reminded people that not everyone glorified the hegemony or a decrepit old city. Thessalonika is next. I wouldn't be surprised if Even Athens decides enough is enough. What the hell do they want a bunch of German and Danish kings for anyways?
 
Goddammit, not this again. Just because the Egyptians make Alexandria a special economic zone does NOT make it Greek. Sure, there are plenty of Greeks there, but I am tired of hearing people claim some economic agreements makes something Hellenic. i don't think the Greeks even claim that, and a lot of them find the Byzantine claims insulting. They know the Byzantines thought of themselves as Romans and denied being Greek. Besides, neither Alexandria or Constantinople have importance for just about any Christians besides maybe some Cops. Hell, JERUSALEM has no more than sentimental value.

Greece is a weak state. They aren't even centralized anymore. Their population was stretched thin trying to settle areas they kicked out Aromanenians, Pomaks, Turks, Muslim Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Armenians, and others from the mainland. There is a reason Greeks are kept limited visas in Alexandria these days. After their failed attacks on Rhodes, Albania, French Outre Mer, Palestine, Cyprus... Those Neo-Byzantine fuckers are lucky the Italians and Albanians didn't do more than split the Ionian Islands and set up the Republic of Epirus for the various dispossesed. Actually a good thing the Hellenic Eprirsians revolted in their favor. Reminded people that not everyone glorified the hegemony or a decrepit old city. Thessalonika is next. I wouldn't be surprised if Even Athens decides enough is enough. What the hell do they want a bunch of German and Danish kings for anyways?

Alexandria basically is hellenic though given that the large majority of people who live their are greek (when you have 65% of the population in the city who consider themselves greek, you're not exactly going to listen to an egyptian leader), they have next to no connection with egypt at all nowadays and have total autonomy (probably why they've escaped the nonsense happening in the south), also the official name of greece is the kingdom of byzantine technically (even though yeah, they haven't been that in at least 200 years and haven't been an empire in at least half a millenium).

I'd hardly call a country with a 3 trillion dollar economy that weak (despite the recession). The central government basically isn't centralised because it would be stupid. Having other state entities and one parliament like the UK was always going to make more sense then trying to rule over such a vast distance. Blame the weakness on the party in power right now rather than the system (they suck). Probably what will lead to this new pro-republican party taking their next federal election and kicking out the monarchy (and its not like they can do anything about it, since they're all a bunch of screw ups anyway).

Also yeah the fallout of the fascists in the 60's and 70's who decided to kick out all those people and guess what, they did suffer a coup cause of it.

Also of course theirs no value, its cause Israel is separate and has been for years (despite what the government over there says).
 
I'd hardly call a country with a 3 trillion dollar economy that weak (despite the recession). The central government basically isn't centralised because it would be stupid. Having other state entities and one parliament like the UK was always going to make more sense then trying to rule over such a vast distance. Blame the weakness on the party in power right now rather than the system (they suck). Probably what will lead to this new pro-republican party taking their next federal election and kicking out the monarchy (and its not like they can do anything about it, since they're all a bunch of screw ups anyway).
Drachmas. If we go by US dollars it is more like 300 billion. Even then you have to include Greece's de facto protectorates.
 
Drachmas. If we go by US dollars it is more like 300 billion. Even then you have to include Greece's de facto protectorates.

30 trillion drachma's actually and an average GDP per capita of like 40k per.

They're not doing that badly for themselves.
 
The greek economy would be a whole lot weaker and unsustainable.

They needed that extra bit of clay to be a functional economy.
 
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