DBWI: The US President has officially apologized for Operation Downfall

OOC : Butterflies don't mean that ALL is different after the POD.

Schwarzenegger is probably born in both TLs and have similar careers.

IC: I still thinks it war a BIGGG mistake to annex Austria and give it statehood as early as 1946. The Black President (Schwarz=Black) would not have been possible if he was born out of the US.

But I should be glad that the US did annex us - we probably would be a SSR if that had not happened. Or we would be an insignificant little country in Europe instead of AIRSTRIP TWO - only a little less improtant than AIRSTRIP ONE.

I hope the BLACK will keep his promise and bring military spending up again - the crazy neo socialist presidents have cut the budget to unbearable low levels.

And those noGUN lobby actually wants to ban the private use of weapons with a reach of 1+mile. How do you expect we should defend our borders against those Commies....
 
OOC: Does Austria *must* be annexed into the US for Arnold to become POTUS? Wouldn't a Constitutional Amendment permitting immigrants to become president be more plausible?
 
OOC: Does Austria *must* be annexed into the US for Arnold to become POTUS? Wouldn't a Constitutional Amendment permitting immigrants to become president be more plausible?

OOC: Probably, but I like the idea of Austria being Airstrip TWO - with large Hanger complexes built into the Alps to make them bomb proof.
 
OOC: As long as germany isn't burdened with the Austrians ;) (no offense intended, Richter :D)

IC: It was about time someone acknowledged officially that fighting fire with even more fire isn't always the solution. The Koreans and Chinese showed clearly they can be just as vicious as the Japanese were. Japanese have been treated like sub-humans ever since Imperial Japan surrendered.

Remember the "voluntarily donated" human organs that turned up in Europe and the States a decade ago and were conclusively proven to have been harvested from not-so-voluntary Japanese "donors" in China and Korea?

The Koreans and KMT should not throw stones when they are sitting in a glass house. Bigots, the lot of them!
 
It easy to apply our western standards to those people, but that does not help to understand WHY they do it.

In reality some of those "atriocities" have their origin in the (asisatic) believe that the individual is nothing and has to stand behind if it is required for the betterment of the state.

Conquered people as such were "owned" by the state who has the right to get "compensated" for having to "care" for them. And it is clear to them that their own people are more important than others, so if you have not enough to eat yourself the prisoners are to receive even less.

We US put the individal welfare over the welfare of the state - Of course that does not mean that everyone can do what he wants, its just that you are not allowed to do harm to someone to avert harm to somewone else. A Chinese PO would no doubt disregard the safety of a hostage and try to take out any offender by all means, while an US PO would be trying to negotiate first.

Get my right - I don#t want to defend what they do, but I strongly suggest that you understand their culture first before you judge by your standards.
 
OOC: That is brutal :D I personally think it was a-okay that half of Germany got chewed on by the USSR for fifty years, (Me? Jewish? How could you tell?) and the poor freaking Greeks!!! Dang. Nice work!!! :) (Pausing to think...) Oh crap! In your TL, the movie 300 is filmed in Russian, for starters. ("Это Спарта!")

OOC: The West got to see Stalin's true colours a bit sooner. So they quit coddling him and took Germany for themselves. (And the Red Army promptly grabbed everything else. TTL's Iron Curtain was farther east, but longer as it also split Iran/Persia in two.) On the one hand that meant that they didn't have to share the nice toys, even if the Russians still got a fair chunk of Germany's industrial equipment as 'reparations'. (Sort of like OTL. The Marshall Plan, like OTL saw this all replaced with new, modern equipment made in the US. What the Russians got was obsolete anyways.) On the other hand it meant that the Western Allies had no real use for the leftover Nazis. (Fewer war crimes trials and more 'unfortunate accidents'.) Well, apart from those needed to train the FDR's post-occupation bureaucracy and militia. Germany still doesn't have an actual army, but they do have a volunteer force that can be called up to help defend Germany should the Soviets invade. Of course it answers to and has it's air support provided by the British. (Along with equipment, fuel and munitions. It's a very short leash.)

TTL's 300 was in fact an American film. The outlandish costume design meant that the Persians for some reason wore armour and/or clothing that looked it came from 20th century Moscow... Remember, the Spartans who went to Thermopylae all died buying time for their allies. The moral being that the "Free" World shouldn't forget that others bought them the time they needed to rally their forces and face down the Soviets, and that that time was paid for in blood. Hollywood isn't a fan of Soviet Communism...
 
OOC: Probably, but I like the idea of Austria being Airstrip TWO - with large Hanger complexes built into the Alps to make them bomb proof.

OOC: Does Austria *must* be annexed into the US for Arnold to become POTUS? Wouldn't a Constitutional Amendment permitting immigrants to become president be more plausible?

OOC: Couldn't we do something like in Panama, have a piece of land be ours for a while then give it back?

IC: Schwarzenegger, despite almost ALL of the Nationalist Party accusing him of treason, was right in doing this. We have a duty as Americans to lead the world, and if that means being judged by harsher standards, so be it.

Also, The KMT nearly had Bejing taken over, and burned down last year when they tried to bring back the even more harsh "Japanese Codes" (I'm exaggerating a little but you get my point). If the they can't suppress the riots (which HAVE been gaining traction with regular Chinese), they will fall apart.
 

Incognito

Banned
Oh man, a lot of people in Seoul and Nanjing will be fuming at this. People haven`t forgotten what the IJA did across Asia even though it`s 70+ years.
ONLY Seoul and Nanjing? Heck, a congressman from Manila along with several other prominent Pilipino politicians said they will attempt to have Schwarzenegger impeached for this! :eek:

In my opinion, Schwarzenegger is making a mistake and will only make him look weak in the eyes of the world. I mean you have all those Soviet-funded Japanese groups like the Sekigun-ha and Rengō Sekigun as well as the fascist organizations like the Black Dragon Society and the religious fanatics like the Aum Shinrikyo. All of them commit acts of terror against Americans not only in Japan but on U.S.A’s own soil – we have the 2003 Los Angelus Shootout, the attempted bombing of Air Force 1 in 2005, the 2006 assassination of that senator from Sicily, the foiled 2009 suicide bombing of the Conference on Climate Change in Reykjavík, etc., etc, etc. Schwarzenegger’s apology will only encourage such groups because to them it looks like American will is bending due to their efforts. Don’t be surprised if there is going to be a spike in Japanese terrorism now, which the USSR will happily fund as long as they keep attacking U.S. and its allies.


(OOC: hey, if Austria is turned into a U.S. state, why not Philippines, Sicily & Iceland? Expansionism ho! Is there any way U.K can be part of U.S. too? :D)
 
OOC: Please keep Canada independent.

OOC: I did imply that we (Canada) got the bomb in 1948, along with the other Dominions following in the wake of the British nuclear test that year.

And referred to the Americans as 'the Americans', not as 'we'. I think I'll expand on all that just a bit:

IC: If the Americans have an ounce of sense they'll follow this by booting the Chinese and Koreans out of Japan and giving the Japanese 'Marshall Plan v2.0'. Doing everything in their power to ensure that the Japanese people can stand on their own would do more to cut the legs from under the terrorists and the Reds than any counterinsurgency campaign.

And if the bitch in Ottawa has any sense, she'll restate our long held position on occupation of Japan and also remind the Yanks that the NORAD is up for renewal this year. We don't need the assistance of the US to keep the Soviet Air Force out of our airspace. But the Yanks need us if they want any real early warning should the Russian ICBM force be launched at them... And they also need our permission if they want to send their submarines through the Northwest Passage, unless they really want to find out not only how good those boats actually are, but whether the rumours that we've mined the passage are true...

The US is an ally against the communists, but the prevailing view here and in the Commonwealth is that they aren't exactly a reliable ally against anyone.
 
The US is an ally against the communists, but the prevailing view here and in the Commonwealth is that they aren't exactly a reliable ally against anyone.

Damn straight. Hell, we should've seen this coming in '45, what with them leaving 21st Army Group to crack Berlin while they pottered about Bohemia and then having the gall to say they won WWII single-handedly. Ugh.

And what about MacArthur's treatment of Australian and British troops in Downfall, eh? Are we getting an apology for that?

I'll tell you, the sooner London and Washington break off, the better it'll be for everyone.
 
It easy to apply our western standards to those people, but that does not help to understand WHY they do it.
[snip]

Get my right - I don#t want to defend what they do, but I strongly suggest that you understand their culture first before you judge by your standards.

I am aware of this mindset and it disgusts me to no end. It just seems like a vicious tit-for-tat. Essentially, you are saying that judging by this asiatic mindset, the Japanese were also justified in raping most of East Asia because they had been the conquerors and could do with those territories what they wanted. This cannot be right.

OOC: I'm in favor of a constitutional amendment that lets Ahnuld become president. Having Airstrip 2 in europe can be achieved by other means (treaties etc.).

@Modelcitizen: not gonna bother :mad:
 
I am aware of this mindset and it disgusts me to no end. It just seems like a vicious tit-for-tat. Essentially, you are saying that judging by this asiatic mindset, the Japanese were also justified in raping most of East Asia because they had been the conquerors and could do with those territories what they wanted. This cannot be right.

Right or not, that's the position they've taken, and they're sticking with it. The Empire of Korea released its response a few hours ago and they're condemning Schwarzenegger for undermining Pacific Rim unity at an uncertain time politically. Seoul also announced that they're dispatching an additional army regiment to supplement their existing assets on Okinawa and Iwo Jima.

The apology was probably the Korean excuse to do this, though; the civil disobedience campaigns on those two islands are getting worse, and it's only the strict arms and nitrates restrictions imposed by the Koreans that have prevented it from growing into a full-blown insurgency. Hell, you could write a sequel to the Anarchist's Cookbook by compiling the hare-brained schemes the Okinawans have come up with to improvise explosives over the years.

Seems like a no-win situation to me - Japan gets progressively uglier the longer the occupation lasts, but the uglier it gets, the stronger the Sino-Korean argument about the incurable militarism of the Japanese people gets, which prolongs the occupation. Here's a question, then: how quickly do most people on this board expect Japanese re-armament to go if the occupation did end? Would the existing arms restrictions be a significant barrier, and could the occupation be reinstated quickly if there were violations? We all remember how hard enforcing Versailles was...
 
Wow, well, that's the most disgusting thing I've heard all week.

ooc:

I can top that. In an abstract way, I think (for some countries) being pressed into the Communist Block for two generations was a somewhat fair consequence for making it easy for the Nazis to carry out the Final Solution.


Look at Denmark for contrast: From the top down, when the Nazis tried to collect Jewish people, the Danes resisted and got results.

In Poland and Ukraine et al, there are too many tales of local collaboration/support for Nazi genocidal efforts, of Jews trying to return to their homes in Poland after WW2 and being greeted with howls of dismay that they hadn't been killed, etc. et al.


Do I think the Berlin Wall was righteous? No. The USSR was an evil empire, Reagan was right about that.

For whatever it's worth, I admire how Germany has openly taken measures to account for what was done in WW2, and how they've pulled themselves into being a global example of how a nation can treat its people and its neighbors.


And, in an abstract philosophical view, I think being rendered in two and being half-occupied by the empire that lost twenty million of its own people makes a kind of sense.
 
Cont'd...

Wow, well, that's the most disgusting thing I've heard all week.

Look at the phrase I used: "got chewed on by the USSR for fifty years," it's an image from Dante's Inferno. The worst sinner of creation was submerged in ice and chewed on by the devil. When you look at what the Nazis did and what being taken over by the USSR involved, I thought the parallels were kind of obvious.

I certainly didn't mean to cause umbrage, and I hope we can agree to disagree.
 
Wow, well, that's the most disgusting thing I've heard all week.

.....

@Modelcitizen: not gonna bother :mad:



I confess I am kind of surprised.

My thought that being occupied by the USSR was a form of karma for the Nazi atrocities is something I've had for years. I guess I've never expressed this thought online before, so I never learned that it was exceptionally offensive.


Do you sort of see where I'm coming from? Or (dusty lightbulb turned on) I fear that my expression of this thought is essentially a crude condemnation of all Germans.


Well.


For what it's worth, I apologize.

If you wish to submit a complaint to admin/mods about my statement, I'll accept the punishment that I'm given.


Edit: I reported myself. I quote below the message that accompanied my report:
I think I f---ed up.

I said something on the order of Germany having deserved being ripped in half and occupied by the USSR by two generations, and then I went and said the same of countries that collaborated with the Nazis viz their genocidal policy.

I would understand if action of sanction is taken.

I do hope that my self-declaration and open contrition can prevent a ban from being imposed.
 
Last edited:
Top