DBWI the romans lose the battle of Autissiodorum

The battle of Autissiodorum (or Auxerre, as the Franks called it) was the last battle of the Horatius campaign to reconquer Gallia, under Frankish control since the V century AD, it was the last of the five battles of his campaign and resulted in the death of Pepin Karling and the collapse of the Frankish empire that was later annexed into the romans (alltough some Frankish warlords did try to hold the Western romans later, they were ultimately defeated)

Let's say that Caesar Horatius lost the battle of Autissiodorum, could the Franks still had kept their kingdom at least on northern gallia? And what if it was a decisive victory and Killed Horatius, could the Franks reconquer all their lost territory, and maybe even invade Roman italy and Hispania, or it was too far away?
 
The battle of Autissiodorum (or Auxerre, as the Franks called it) was the last battle of the Horatius campaign to reconquer Gallia, under Frankish control since the V century AD, it was the last of the five battles of his campaign and resulted in the death of Pepin Karling and the collapse of the Frankish empire that was later annexed into the romans (alltough some Frankish warlords did try to hold the Western romans later, they were ultimately defeated)

Let's say that Caesar Horatius lost the battle of Autissiodorum, could the Franks still had kept their kingdom at least on northern gallia? And what if it was a decisive victory and Killed Horatius, could the Franks reconquer all their lost territory, and maybe even invade Roman italy and Hispania, or it was too far away?

So do you have a particular ATL in mind? As much as I like the way this post is presented, it doesn't seem to have much of a historical basis.
 
So do you have a particular ATL in mind? As much as I like the way this post is presented, it doesn't seem to have much of a historical basis.

OOC: basically the Western Roman empire loses all Gallia, Germania, raethia, Illyria and pannonia, but clings on Italy, north africa and Spain, and so after some centuries Caesar Horatius (their emperor) makes a campaign and succesfully defeat the Franks
 
I doubt it. The Franks had tactics unsuited to the climate of Gallia. Even if they won this battle, they'd be totally and utterly smashed by the Romans elsewhere.
 
OOC: basically the Western Roman empire loses all Gallia, Germania, raethia, Illyria and pannonia, but clings on Italy, north africa and Spain, and so after some centuries Caesar Horatius (their emperor) makes a campaign and succesfully defeat the Franks

Ok [assuming the the guise of a historian from alternate history]. Judging from the few surviving contemporary accounts of the battle, Pepin's force was outnumbered rather significantly by the Roman force. Thus Pepin could not (easily) have inflicted a crushing defeat on the Roman army, although a tactical victory was never off the table. It is my opinon that Pepin had a far better chance of decisively defeating the Romans earlier on in the campaign, i.e at the battle of Turones, when the Franks actually had the manpower to hold out against the Romans.

As for the hypothetical counter-attack against the Romans in Hispania or Italia, I would venture to guess that a Frankish crossing of the Alps was theoretically possible, although it is highly doubtful that Pepin would try to press on farther than, say, Mediolanum.
 
I could imagine one of Pepin's successors nabbing a bit of Roman territory, at least temporarily. After all, his son Carolus fought quite valiantly during the Frankish resistance against Rome, governing the rump state of Noviodunum until 771. A man of his stature could easily have led the Franks to glory, under different circumstances.
 

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Without the Roman reconquest of Gaul and later the conquest of Germania, we wouldn't have seen the formation of the Holy Roman Empire as a compromise between the Roman and Germanic nobilities.
 
I could imagine one of Pepin's successors nabbing a bit of Roman territory, at least temporarily. After all, his son Carolus fought quite valiantly during the Frankish resistance against Rome, governing the rump state of Noviodunum until 771. A man of his stature could easily have led the Franks to glory, under different circumstances.

Well, after Autissiodorum they were only delaying the inevitable
 
Well, at least Horatius's dying in battle against the Franks would have been a better fate than his being slaughtered in his own bed, as in OTL. Poor Horatius.
 
He didn't fare as badly as other Romans of the time. Alas, poor Yoricius.

We had Tullus the old that died in a typhoon while trying to make a state visit for the azores, he could survived for 73 years against all assassination attemps, invasions, battles, struggles for power, but his ship sunk at the end :v
 
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We had Tullus the old that died in a typhoon while trying to make a state visit for the azores, he could survived for 73 years against all assassination attemps, invasions, abttles, struggles for power, but his ship sunk at the end :v

Ah yes. A veteran of many "abttles", he was.
 
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