DBWI: The roman Republic does NOT survive to the present day

[Fabilius]

And this is starting to sound like that "Amerika" tabletop RPG game many of you play. Where Germania comes close to taking over Europe, but people like Winstonus and DeGaulus attempt to oppose the dictator Hetler(what an odd name). Please, no mention of Napoleonus, Mohammed or any of those people. I'm not some tabletop geek, so the constant mentions of these people have a way of getting on my nerves. There's maybe like 4 major analogues from various sources, but they're all really important. Just stick the REAL important people

Well Mohammed was sort of important wasn´t he. After all, although an iliterate, and definitely insane, he became the first arab to get a seat in the Senate. And without his exemple, we might never have had, first consul Saladin. After all Saladin prevented a civil war from stirring up when both Britannica and Africa, threatened to leave the republic.

Which is by the way, one point in time when the republic could have split.

 

[JP_Morgan]

Yes, we can't forget about Saladin. He convinced Africa to stay with the Empire,(that's what it was at the time) and crushed the Britannia revolt(1178-1187) by going around and defeating the main instiagtors those ever-tenacious Picts in Caledonia, and would help the Britannia Senate to stand down.

Mohammed may have had minor importance. But Arabia has been lost to us since 1404, and though we have a free-trade agreement with them, the chances of anything else happening are rather low,

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Consider This...

Well, another threat to the Empire was when in 1943 AUC (1190CE) when Temujin unified the Mongol and Tartar tribes, and led an attack of the Eastern Frontiers, conquering Muscovy and Sarmatia by 1980 AUC (1227 CE). When Ogoadai Khan took his father's quest for power in 1982 AUC (1229 CE), consider that a major threat to the security and safety to the Empire....

 

[JP_Morgan]

That's right. They had invaded Dacia, and might have taken Byzantium, but Aulus the commander of the forces in the area, won a smashing victory against them,( and sent them fleeing back over the Urals, which he helped use to seize power. If there wasn't a strong army with a good general in the area,then they would have likely overrun most of Eastern Europa

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Another Idea...

Consider that the rise of Borgiann Dynasty starting in 2208 AUC (1455 CE) with the rise of Emperor Calistus III, set about the creation of one of the darkest eras in the Roman Empire. You also had the long line of Emperor Alexander VI (2245-2256 AUC/ 1492-1503 CE) leading their high point, while you have Caesar Borgiann and Emperor Infans Romanus leading to the collapse of the Dynasty in 2301 AUC (1548 CE). If the empire could have collapsed for any reason internally, this could have been one of those points...

 

[JP_Morgan]

Ah yes. Calistus III. One of the most cruel emperors in history. He was known to decapitate men who stared at him for more than a second, and often amused himself by sending random people to the lions. And his destruction of farms led to the revolt of Scandia (1462 CE) which remains outside of our control to the present day. He wasn't able to screw up too much in Roman-accultured areas, and was a good organioer,which is probably why he reigned for 19 years. Terror was his main weapon.

Caesar Borgann III is possibly the most drunk -emperor in history.
After the violent death of his father Calsitus IV,by being run over by an elephany he kicked, the throne fell to this utter incompetent.
Besides his excessive consumption of drugs. His death from alcohol posoining at 26 was an indication of how much of a drunk he really was, adding to him being a major palyboy.

And Infans Romanus, as the name says was very young and reigned over seven months. Hr had been the nephew of the younger brother og Caesar Borgann III, who had been killed in a drunken rampage. The Revolution had already been under way at this time, and ended with the deposal of Infans Romanus after five months
I think that if the Scandians had been feeling a little more like raiding, and the conditions could easily change to tempt them, then total collapse would seem rather likely. But Lucius Brutus Scandius, whom had scored a victory agsinst them in southern scandia1545 CE was there to guard the frontier, and helped discourage them if they ever had any thoughts. Thankfully, scandius was a republican, and never tried to take over himself.

And a word must be said about Terra nova, which was discovered about 30 years after this. They were getting enough representation in the Senate
in the 17th century, so that they could have more power than any og the Europa senators. So tried to limit their representation, which led to conflict and the recognition of Terra Nova as an independent nation in the Treaty of Londinium (1763 CE) If anything had gone wrong, then some kind of collapse could have ensued. But, today, they are among are closest allies!

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by johnp
But Lucius Brutus Scandius, whom had scored a victory agsinst them in southern scandia1545 CE was there to guard the frontier, and helped discourage them if they ever had any thoughts. Thankfully, scandius was a republican, and never tried to take over himself.

I remember this, in the school the history teacher ever refered as an example of noble man and true republican (a new Cincinnatus say the teacher) to Lucius Brutus.

But as you say if Lucius Brutus didn´t have exist could be the commandant of the frontier with all the legions (and there were a lot under commander Lucius Brutus) had thought in reclaim the throne beginning a civil war while the scandians raid the Roman Empire.

Originally posted by Johnp
And a word must be said about Terra nova, which was discovered about 30 years after this. They were getting enough representation in the Senate
in the 17th century, so that they could have more power than any og the Europa senators. So tried to limit their representation, which led to conflict and the recognition of Terra Nova as an independent nation in the Treaty of Londinium (1763 CE) If anything had gone wrong, then some kind of collapse could have ensued. But, today, they are among are closest allies!

Surely it had been a source of problems, but a collapse? I don´t think that is very possible, now Terra Nova is very important but in those past times the Terra Nova was not as important to cause a collapse.

In fact remembering that period althoug some decades later what if if the attempted coup of Aulus Bonapartius against senate (a young general with great military skills but also with a very big ambition) had succeed in 1800 CE? well I think a new Dictature had beginning (the book of Tacitus Aurelius about military coups against republic say even that Bonapartius have desires of make a new Roman Empire with him as emperor! )

 

[Fabilius]

What do you think are the odds on the Terra Novans joining the republic again, after the reforms?

I mean, Terra Nova and our Republic are well...Republics. I mean, we may not have freedom of speech like them...Which is no problem to me, since I have nothing to say critical of our great society...but we have a voting system that is just the same.
After all we are all Terranizing, in 20 years we might all share the same currency, even.

 

[Nicole]

There are some massive differences- Terra Nova is far more open, less forced Latinization (it happens anyway, but...), and more respect for differences rather than the Roman way of looking down on the cultures of the conquered people as inferior...

 

[JP_Morgan]

There are some massive differences- Terra Nova is far more open, less forced Latinization (it happens anyway, but...), and more respect for differences rather than the Roman way of looking down on the cultures of the conquered people as inferior...

Well, you've got to understand. The areas of the northern continent that didn't have small areas taken from them by the Indians and Chinese weren't really at a high level of civilization, so the locals were absorbed pretty easily. Of course, their appearance did cause some discrimination, and triggered the native Terra Nova movement. And yes, they have gotten more rights, but keep on mind that some of their tribes still aren't recognized. There's many nasty issues there and complicated

 

[fortyseven]

isn't this a triple blind?

Who likes big animals ? I do. I'm glad the Republic was restored and survived to the present otherwise we'd probably have no moas or aurochs anymore.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Personally...

Well, you've got to understand. The areas of the northern continent that didn't have small areas taken from them by the Indians and Chinese weren't really at a high level of civilization, so the locals were absorbed pretty easily. Of course, their appearance did cause some discrimination, and triggered the native Terra Nova movement. And yes, they have gotten more rights, but keep on mind that some of their tribes still aren't recognized. There's many nasty issues there and complicated

Personally, I am a little disturbed with the constant discussion by Board members regarding theimportance of Terra Nova, especially after the Treaty of Londonium of 2516 AUC (1763 CE). Consider that by 2553 AUC (1800CE) Roman legions had to be distributed to protect the region along the border with Fusang. To make matters worse in 2565 AUC (1812 CE) consider that the Terra Novans had again angered the Chung-Kuo near the Gum Shan region (OTL's Rocky Mountains). And before the century was out, you had the Terra Novans angering the nation of Aztlan, even marching on Tenochitlan in 2591 AUC (1848 CE). As such, the Terra Novans should do us the pleasure of acceding to Roman laws and standards...

 

[JP_Morgan]

Bumping this, because I heard that the Terra Novan Senate passed yet another tax cut that benefits the rich. Since the opposition is weak, even though there is mass disastisfaction with the present regime, we could see a corporate regime take over there, patiularly wit hthe events in asteroids owened by the unity Corporation.

And Fabilius I agree about adolphus Germanicus. If Winstonius didn't launch his coup, causing Ger. to flee, collapse woudl have been imminent.

 

[Nicole]

A "corporate regime" is completely implausible in Terra Nova.. I don't see why you Romans are so obsessed with dreaming about Terra Nova's democracy ending, it's not going to happen...

 

[JP_Morgan]

Well, social services have a habit of being cut there, but considering that the senate will do nothing about price hikes for fuel, the actions of the government of terra nova sugegsts that they will do nothing about it