DBWI: The Ptolemaic Dynasty is now extinct

[Servant]

How did Ptolomeic Egypt survive the rise of Islam? I can accept, just about, that it could survive into the 600s as long as Rome(then Constantinople) and Ctesiphon thought it was more trouble than it was worth to conquer it (probably by playing one off against the other!). However the Arabs would have had no interest in leaving it alone.It was in their way.

The Ptolemies converted to Islam in the 800s, and due to intermarriage with Berber dynasties, has long since been Arabized. Really, the original Greek origins of the Ptolemy dynasty has long since been buried to the point of irrelevance. I don't really know why they keep the name.

Lets face it in all a man died today, he has only constitutional monarch roles so its upsetting world over yes but their isn't going to be a major war or anything, the best possible solution is (seeing how the heir is a numpty) invite a foreign monarch or elect one via popular vote, or go on as a republic keeping the same system just without the monarch

The problem with a "republican" system is that the nominal head of Egyptian Islam is the Pharaoh/Caliph (even if the Ulama handles most of the day-to-day stuff). You can't really get rid of the symbolism without raising too many questions about the Islamic deep state that permeates the country. I suppose it's possible to transfer religious authority to an elected President, but much of the Ulama would disapprove. After denouncing democracy and justifying dictatorship for so long, it's hard for them to do a U-turn.

 

[Falecius]

OOC: how on Earth does Islam exist ITTL with a POD creating a surviving Ptolemaic dynasty? That's at least six centuries of divergences that should have been involving Arabia quite directly.

 

[Servant]

OOC: So long as you expose Arabia to monotheistic traditions like Christianity and Judaism, somebody can easily create a monotheistic religion of their own in Arabia and have it become popular enough to unite the Arabs. Without political unity of the Arabs, then the Arabs can't really pose the threat to Ptolemies as Lindseyman suggested. Islam serves as a good enough reason for unification.

It's much more plausible than having every single ancient dynasty still exist to the modern day without any sort of change.
---
EDIT: I suppose it's possible that Christianity might have been butterflied away without Roman occupation of Palestine, but Arabia still need some political unity. Maybe Arabia became unified under Jewish rule (and I just used Islam as a shorthand for Arab Judaism)? There were several Jewish clans that existed in OTL, though I only recall them existing near Medina/Yathrib.

 

[Falecius]

OOC: So long as you expose Arabia to monotheistic traditions like Christianity and Judaism, somebody can easily create a monotheistic religion of their own in Arabia and have it become popular enough to unite the Arabs. Without political unity of the Arabs, then the Arabs can't really pose the threat to Ptolemies as Lindseyman suggested. Islam serves as a good enough reason for unification.

It's much more plausible than having every single ancient dynasty still exist to the modern day without any sort of change.
---
EDIT: I suppose it's possible that Christianity might have been butterflied away without Roman occupation of Palestine, but Arabia still need some political unity. Maybe Arabia became unified under Jewish rule (and I just used Islam as a shorthand for Arab Judaism)? There were several Jewish clans that existed in OTL, though I only recall them existing near Medina/Yathrib.

Fair enough, although it probably would not be called Islam (going by OTL, maybe "hanifiyya" or "hanifism" could be a sensible name for an alt-Arabian monotheism of some kind).

 

[ArKhan]

OOC: how on Earth does Islam exist ITTL with a POD creating a surviving Ptolemaic dynasty? That's at least six centuries of divergences that should have been involving Arabia quite directly.

OOC: Agreed. I say we ignore those posts. No Islam, no Christianity, just classical religions.

 

[ArKhan]

OOC: So long as you expose Arabia to monotheistic traditions like Christianity and Judaism, somebody can easily create a monotheistic religion of their own in Arabia and have it become popular enough to unite the Arabs. Without political unity of the Arabs, then the Arabs can't really pose the threat to Ptolemies as Lindseyman suggested. Islam serves as a good enough reason for unification.

It's much more plausible than having every single ancient dynasty still exist to the modern day without any sort of change.
---
EDIT: I suppose it's possible that Christianity might have been butterflied away without Roman occupation of Palestine, but Arabia still need some political unity. Maybe Arabia became unified under Jewish rule (and I just used Islam as a shorthand for Arab Judaism)? There were several Jewish clans that existed in OTL, though I only recall them existing near Medina/Yathrib.

Fair enough, although it probably would not be called Islam (going by OTL, maybe "hanifiyya" or "hanifism" could be a sensible name for an alt-Arabian monotheism of some kind).

OOC: Okay, going with that interpretation now.

 

[ArKhan]

Fair enough, although it probably would not be called Islam (going by OTL, maybe "hanifiyya" or "hanifism" could be a sensible name for an alt-Arabian monotheism of some kind).

I actually lived in Alexandria for quite some time when I was younger. I was a student at the University of Alexandria, and I have to say, the Library* is every bit as impressive as you've heard. Literally millions of books and scrolls, some dating back to the time of Alexander himself, or even earlier. The lighthouse**, while certainly not as tall or advanced as modern structures, is also impressive because of it's antiquity. By Odin***, I'd hate for anything to happen to the city, which is why I'm really hoping for a peaceful outcome to all this.

OOC:
*Yes, this is the original library. The fire never happens in TTL. The building has been expanded over the centuries, and is now home to the one of the world's most prestigious universities.
** Again, the original Pharos Lighthouse, still in use, but with electrical lights now.
*** My character is of Germanic descent and follows the old Norse gods.

 

[DevonPasty]

See, this is the problem with the world. One man dies from a rich family, everyone cries. Thousands die in a bloody civil war, no one bats an eyelid. Maybe with a change of leadership someone will finally do something about the conflict here in Brittania. It's not easy getting a connection with artillery shaking the ground up every few weeks.

The Angles have been asking for it ever since they murdered that family who stumbled across the Thames. I mean, all they wanted was to visit their old home before the International Divides were put in place!

Need to prioritize the suffering of the little people rather than those elitists sitting in their golden palaces. I want to go back to the old days before the racial divides here became a problem...

 

[ArKhan]

See, this is the problem with the world. One man dies from a rich family, everyone cries. Thousands die in a bloody civil war, no one bats an eyelid. Maybe with a change of leadership someone will finally do something about the conflict here in Brittania. It's not easy getting a connection with artillery shaking the ground up every few weeks.

The Angles have been asking for it ever since they murdered that family who stumbled across the Thames. I mean, all they wanted was to visit their old home before the International Divides were put in place!

Need to prioritize the suffering of the little people rather than those elitists sitting in their golden palaces. I want to go back to the old days before the racial divides here became a problem...

Yeah, that's why I left Brittania. So You're Saxon, and I'm Angle. So what? We live on the same island, look the same, speak the same language (granted with a slightly different accent), and follow the same gods for the most part. Why let petty territorial disputes turn us into enemies? We should be brothers.

 

[DevonPasty]

Yeah, that's why I left Brittania. So You're Saxon, and I'm Angle. So what? We live on the same island, look the same, speak the same language (granted with a slightly different accent), and follow the same gods for the most part. Why let petty territorial disputes turn us into enemies? We should be brothers.

Actually I've of Kornovii descent. It's true we speak Saxon the same as everyone else but we have our own language too, similar to those in Cymru (I suppose you'd call it Wailez).

Once the Hedgemony broke up all hell let lose. That last war was one too many, the tensions had been building for far too long. Now I'm terrified of a few of those extremists crossing the Tamar... We've got our small local garrison firing warning shots but it won't hold if the South Saxons make push. They'd had several years to stockpile.

 

[ArKhan]

Actually I've of Kornovii descent. It's true we speak Saxon the same as everyone else but we have our own language too, similar to those in Cymru (I suppose you'd call it Wailez).

Once the Hedgemony broke up all hell let lose. That last war was one too many, the tensions had been building for far too long. Now I'm terrified of a few of those extremists crossing the Tamar... We've got our small local garrison firing warning shots but it won't hold if the South Saxons make push. They'd had several years to stockpile.

By Odin, I hope it never comes to that. May the Gods be with you and your kin friend.

 

[Blurgle]

OOC: Aren't royal families by definition unable to just "naturally die off"? They've got to have an heir somewhere, an illegitimate child if it comes to that

OOC: They sure can die off and have. (Although in this TL it seems as if the family hasn't died off, as there's a rhino-poaching third cousin hanging around.) When the old family dies out you might get some hothead noble taking the title for his own, you might get a peaceful choice of a new monarch by a council of nobles (or even by popular election, which would have happened in Sweden had the Bernadottes died out), you might get a tweaking of the succession rules to allow, say, the son of a daughter (or even a daughter herself) to rule. Or you can get a revolution.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

According to your posting history, the Romans have the biggest everything!


OOC: Sorry, couldn't resist with that user name.

What universe do you live in bro? OF COURSE ROME RULES EVERYTHING.

OOC: This is the beginning of an Internet argument

Marc A

 

[Roger II]

I actually lived in Alexandria for quite some time when I was younger. I was a student at the University of Alexandria, and I have to say, the Library* is every bit as impressive as you've heard. Literally millions of books and scrolls, some dating back to the time of Alexander himself, or even earlier. The lighthouse**, while certainly not as tall or advanced as modern structures, is also impressive because of it's antiquity. By Odin***, I'd hate for anything to happen to the city, which is why I'm really hoping for a peaceful outcome to all this.

OOC:
*Yes, this is the original library. The fire never happens in TTL. The building has been expanded over the centuries, and is now home to the one of the world's most prestigious universities.
** Again, the original Pharos Lighthouse, still in use, but with electrical lights now.
*** My character is of Germanic descent and follows the old Norse gods.

You don't say! My very first Babylonian Studies lecturer did his magistracy* at Alexandria and my best friend from when I was a student at New Bodrum works in the library there now(she says everything's fine and that nobody seriously expects any real turmoil over the succession since Gemistos has very nearly everyone in the government rather too firmly in his back pocket to let that happen).
*OOC: TTL's equivalent to a PhD; Babylonian studies is somewhat of a cross between Assyriology and Classics.

 

[ramones1986]

Is there any update on the succesion? I just saw it on the news in the international channel of the Egyptian state television here in Tondo

 

[EternalCynic]

The Chinese Ministry of All-Barbarian Affairs is not commenting on reports the entire extended family of an exiled ex-Ptolemaic Imperial Chancellor left Chang'An on an Egypt Air flight today. An airport worker told the All-Under-Heaven Daily News he saw Imperial Guards surround the plane before mysterious Coptic-speaking people boarded it through a secret passageway.

 

[Elcheapodeca]

By Mazda! Perhaps this will provide an opportunity to push the western savages out of Iranshahr. Beware followers of the lie soon the light of Mazda will reign from Thrace to Eygpt just as in the old days. Death to the barbarians, down with the lie!

* Role playing as a radical Persian nationalist, and an extreme traditionalist Zoroastrian

 

[Danth]

Yeah, that's why I left Brittania. So You're Saxon, and I'm Angle. So what? We live on the same island, look the same, speak the same language (granted with a slightly different accent), and follow the same gods for the most part. Why let petty territorial disputes turn us into enemies? We should be brothers.

Oh you Angle's and Saxons are funny folks
Over here in the Celtic Federation we have none of that nonsense, though our own prejudices against the Germanic people are obvious and justified with the thousand years of warfare we have all fought against each other at some point
I was talking to a jute the other day that suggested that the end of the Egyptian monarchy should be taken as a sign that the end has come for the old orders, maybe we should come together and unify all of our peoples (we have interbred so much that their is very little true ethnic differences now) under one equal Britannic Banner


OOC: Shall we say their is a Saxon state, a Angle state and a Celtic state all straddling the British isles?

 

[PulkitNahata]

Really, one dynasty dies and you people are worried. In my Samrajya, we change dynasties every 200 years or so but we have not faced any issues. You really need to learn from the great nation of Bharat on how to run your country properly. We already thought that to the people of Sakadvipa and Kushadvipa.

OOC: I am from a timeline where we Indians have not been conquerd by outsiders. Also we managed to conquer South America (Sakadvipa) and Australasia (Kushadvipa).

 

[caliburdeath]

As a most humble citizen of Neaveu Lusitania et Cahokia I must say, good riddance, it's about time all you macoroonist* old worlders got rid of your decrepit old puppets and embraced technocracy.

*hoidy-toidy, like the 1700's fashion 'Macaroni' (not food)