DBWI: The Ninth Anglo-American War... can't there finally be peace?

OOC: To try and clear some of these up, starting with the second to last poster...

1. Most of the American posters have been saying Ireland is oppressed, which has around the same validity as the British members saying that we Americans are evil oppressors : biased, probably exaggerated, but perhaps with a hint of truth. Ireland is likely kept under British influence in the same way that one of the earlier posters said that a few other American nations were: political dominance and threats of force writ large. I did intend, however, for the US to have genuinely good relations with much of South/Central America, back when I noted that US population would be majority Indigenous (read: Hispanic/Latin American) within two decades.

2. Economically, the US is likely as good/better than Britain, but not enough to overpower Britain and her naval allies in the one sphere it matters: the North Atlantic. While the Empires have their colonies to get raw resources from, the US has not only the entirety of Fortress America, but as I mentioned earlier has de facto resource control over Siberia (and with a presence in Japan, likely some help there as well). Not quite a permanent war-economy on either side, but definitely a big deal. On the American side, likewise. Probably massive military aid to strategically important areas (such as Panama/the Caribbean, or other important trade/movement routes) with much less to the non-important regions (such as landlocked countries). Also, since it was mentioned in the past that socialism is accepted in the US as long as it doesn't change your choice of enemy, that will likely have some effect as well.

One interesting point about the US is that, since the East Coast is regularly a battle zone/bombing zone and suffers much damage, it's very likely that many military industries were moved out of range (say in the Central US), and that rather than having the majority of the population in the NE of OTL the US would have more of its population in cities in the Plains or on the West Coast. (I've been dropping hints that battle in the Pacific have been increasingly further west each time, from Australia to Indonesia. In my mind, though it's up for debate, Indonesia is the current field of contention, with naval battles and ground combat where most of the action takes place as Britain tries to keep the US from attacking India. The current state of Australia and other colonies "liberated" or razed by the US is up for claim.)

You make a good point about energy infrastructure. Since the whole of Fortress America likely has less oil than the Empires, what you suggested could work, especially if oil is considered a "war only" resource too valuable for public cunsumption. And since empires control(ed) most of the oil rich regions, you might see them with the anti-nuclear movement. If there's an evironmentalist movement at all, I mean; weather and environmental problems in Africa or the Middle East might not be very important to those in the ruling countries, same with rainforrest depletion to the American side.

3. "Global Tensions Rampant" might be too strong a word; in my mind it's more like "Anglo-American Tensions are rampant, and both sides formed an alliance to deal with it." Except for naval combat in the Combined Atlantic Fleet and some out in the Pacific, it's not really clear how involved Germany or especially France is in the matter. Since Germany has stomped Russia ITTL, it's possible that "what goes on in Eastern Europe stays in Eastern Europe" so long as Germany gives naval aide to Britain.


4. I've been opposed to space combat and rampant sci-fi from the beggining, and I'll explain why. By the hints, this has been taking time around OTL, though the exact year is up for grabs. And there has clearly been no scientific cooperation between the US and European allies, and frequent and bloody wars on a regular basis is not conducive for long-term scientific advances. IOTL, where the US has been blessed with massive immigration of scientists, never having had to worry about war on the borders, and a near-permanent peace time economy conducive for research, we haven't come close to any of the outrageous weapons some have claimed. Fusion, with all the richest countries in the world working together, is who knows how far off. The closest we have to a direct energy weapon fits in a modified Boeing 747. And these would be farther off, not closer. States with large standing armies and frequent wars with devastation tend to fall behind on science development.

You can claim that a space race went up, but space combat isn't going to be major or really important. The empires have to maintain the empires they already have in face of war, and the Americas are fighting as well. Nukes on the moon won't change the strategic situation at all, and there won't be any real economically viable resource on the moon that can't be made on Earth.


All my thoughts, now out on paper (as they say).
 
And as long as we have nuclear bases near the border, or across the seas in Japan or elsewhere across the Pacific and bits of Asia, China can't exactly do much of anything important.

The American paranoia about China again. Ever since they established Jackson over the dilapidated Russian fort.. Vladivost or something all they go on about is China. Did you really expect China to ignore the constant skirmishing and advances on Beijing made by Manchurian and Jap-Kor forces? While the Chinese may continue to show distaste for British Hong Kong, German Shanghai, Portuguese Macao and French Guangzhou such influence is clearly better than the depredetations of US-backed barbarians.
 

Rocano

Banned
Once agian the racist sentiments of the British People. Calling our East Asian Bretheren "Barbarian" when they are no different than you or I. Well actually they are different from you. Damn Barbarian Brit.
 
You colonials are so humorous. Face it. The USA is going downwards, not upwards. I really think it's time Europe stopped playing around with this child and spanked it hard, to teach it manners.
OOC: Also, stop thinking it's the exact same mono-power USA of today. It's not. Much weaker, as the posts outlined.
 

Rocano

Banned
You colonials are so humorous. Face it. The USA is going downwards, not upwards. I really think it's time Europe stopped playing around with this child and spanked it hard, to teach it manners.
OOC: Also, stop thinking it's the exact same mono-power USA of today. It's not. Much weaker, as the posts outlined.

OOC: No Dean outlined what the US is like. and he made the thread so you have to follow it.
 
Your 'Eastern Brethren' have contributed only horse dung and raw fish to the civilisation of the world. I did not realise things were so bad in the States. While I realise the hatred of that marvelous fusion of British and German cuisine (Shepherds pie and Sauerkraut for example) has led Americans down some peculiar paths such a view borders on the insane.

China atleast can claim a history of civilisation and further more the wisdom to choose the side of right. Why does the USA wish to bring anarchy and destruction to the east? Why must they insist on supporting feudal bandits against the lights of western civilisation?
 

Rocano

Banned
what the world is like Okay

OOC: To try and clear some of these up, starting with the second to last poster...

1. Most of the American posters have been saying Ireland is oppressed, which has around the same validity as the British members saying that we Americans are evil oppressors : biased, probably exaggerated, but perhaps with a hint of truth. Ireland is likely kept under British influence in the same way that one of the earlier posters said that a few other American nations were: political dominance and threats of force writ large. I did intend, however, for the US to have genuinely good relations with much of South/Central America, back when I noted that US population would be majority Indigenous (read: Hispanic/Latin American) within two decades.

2. Economically, the US is likely as good/better than Britain, but not enough to overpower Britain and her naval allies in the one sphere it matters: the North Atlantic. While the Empires have their colonies to get raw resources from, the US has not only the entirety of Fortress America, but as I mentioned earlier has de facto resource control over Siberia (and with a presence in Japan, likely some help there as well). Not quite a permanent war-economy on either side, but definitely a big deal. On the American side, likewise. Probably massive military aid to strategically important areas (such as Panama/the Caribbean, or other important trade/movement routes) with much less to the non-important regions (such as landlocked countries). Also, since it was mentioned in the past that socialism is accepted in the US as long as it doesn't change your choice of enemy, that will likely have some effect as well.

One interesting point about the US is that, since the East Coast is regularly a battle zone/bombing zone and suffers much damage, it's very likely that many military industries were moved out of range (say in the Central US), and that rather than having the majority of the population in the NE of OTL the US would have more of its population in cities in the Plains or on the West Coast. (I've been dropping hints that battle in the Pacific have been increasingly further west each time, from Australia to Indonesia. In my mind, though it's up for debate, Indonesia is the current field of contention, with naval battles and ground combat where most of the action takes place as Britain tries to keep the US from attacking India. The current state of Australia and other colonies "liberated" or razed by the US is up for claim.)

You make a good point about energy infrastructure. Since the whole of Fortress America likely has less oil than the Empires, what you suggested could work, especially if oil is considered a "war only" resource too valuable for public cunsumption. And since empires control(ed) most of the oil rich regions, you might see them with the anti-nuclear movement. If there's an evironmentalist movement at all, I mean; weather and environmental problems in Africa or the Middle East might not be very important to those in the ruling countries, same with rainforrest depletion to the American side.

3. "Global Tensions Rampant" might be too strong a word; in my mind it's more like "Anglo-American Tensions are rampant, and both sides formed an alliance to deal with it." Except for naval combat in the Combined Atlantic Fleet and some out in the Pacific, it's not really clear how involved Germany or especially France is in the matter. Since Germany has stomped Russia ITTL, it's possible that "what goes on in Eastern Europe stays in Eastern Europe" so long as Germany gives naval aide to Britain.


4. I've been opposed to space combat and rampant sci-fi from the beggining, and I'll explain why. By the hints, this has been taking time around OTL, though the exact year is up for grabs. And there has clearly been no scientific cooperation between the US and European allies, and frequent and bloody wars on a regular basis is not conducive for long-term scientific advances. IOTL, where the US has been blessed with massive immigration of scientists, never having had to worry about war on the borders, and a near-permanent peace time economy conducive for research, we haven't come close to any of the outrageous weapons some have claimed. Fusion, with all the richest countries in the world working together, is who knows how far off. The closest we have to a direct energy weapon fits in a modified Boeing 747. And these would be farther off, not closer. States with large standing armies and frequent wars with devastation tend to fall behind on science development.

You can claim that a space race went up, but space combat isn't going to be major or really important. The empires have to maintain the empires they already have in face of war, and the Americas are fighting as well. Nukes on the moon won't change the strategic situation at all, and there won't be any real economically viable resource on the moon that can't be made on Earth.


All my thoughts, now out on paper (as they say).
Read This.
 
I enjoy the way Americans insist on claiming their Southern comrades are 'allies'.

True slavery was finally abolished in Brazil but the old landed classes continue to be supported throughout South America. Everyone knows if these states were true democracies they would wish only to be left well alone rather that continue to suffer the economic devestation the constant wars bring. Who here forgets the time the President of Chile made that public denounciation of Washington and found himself dead some three hours later. Ofcourse the culprit eluded capture.

Or that time Mexico (what little remains of that much abused state) attempted to oppose the placing of nuclear weapons upon her soil. What was it? Three tank divisions found themselves on a training exercise a stone throw from the border?

As for the belief Russia, let alone Japan cares at all for the USA this is simply lunacy. Russia is just looking for anyone to help her after that mauling by Germany. If Americans are stupid enough to invest in that financial black hole then good for them. As for Japan, an anachronistic, agricultural power with a military of similar size to Portugal.. well I guess beggars can't be choosers. Why the British chose not to irradiate the Formosa naval base is a mystery indeed.

Some of that is true, but Britain has similar problems, although they are better at hiding them. I'm pretty sure that many of the Indians, Afrikaners, Nigerians, Irish, and even Australasians whose support the British take for granted are getting sick of fighting in wars that do not directly concern them. The Canadians are the only one of Britain's imperial peoples who are still fervently anti-American, and that's because they are immediately threatened by the USA.

Likewise, if Russia clings to its American alliance largely out of fear of continued German domination, Germany clings to its British alliance largely out of fear of a Russian resurgence. Although there are still quite a few Germans who are fiercely pro-British and anti-USA (there seem to be a couple posting here, in fact), overall public opinion in Germany is not as favorable to Britain or hostile to the USA as it was 20 or 30 years ago. There is a growing movement to adopt a more independent foreign policy, which might mean that Germany will be reluctant to give more than token support to the British Empire if there is another Anglo-American war. The fact that the USA has stopped giving support to both radical Zionist and Islamic rebels in the territory of Germany's Ottoman allies has also helped thaw relations at least a little bit.

All of this, of course, assumes that the next war can be kept at a conventional level and does not become a world-destroying nuclear war.
 
I think it has to be remembered that the Empire is only holding on to Canada by a thread . As the last two wars have shown , and even before that , the logistical problems of bringing vast amounts of material across the Atlantic has been steadily mounting , in both resources and expenses . The 9th Anglo-American war was over in three weeks largely because the war was costing the Imperial Economy billions , a rate unsustainable for a prolonged conflict .

Also , with much of the action taking place on the Northern Great Plains , most Brits are'nt exactly too willing to send hundered of thousands of loyal citizens to die in assymetrical low intensity warfare out there on some artic wasteland.
 

ninebucks

Banned
OOC: In an DBWI the world is created by the posters. So the fact that original posters claimed that Ireland was opressed means that in this world they are opressed.

OOC: No. It means that in the OP's IC (American) opinion, they are oppressed, naturally, any IC Briton would dispute such a claim.
 
Some of that is true, but Britain has similar problems, although they are better at hiding them. I'm pretty sure that many of the Indians, Afrikaners, Nigerians, Irish, and even Australasians whose support the British take for granted are getting sick of fighting in wars that do not directly concern them. The Canadians are the only one of Britain's imperial peoples who are still fervently anti-American, and that's because they are immediately threatened by the USA.

While Irish elites are prone to some suicidal revolts every few decades to put the rest of the Empire's peoples in a similar position would seem a mistake. Yes the Afrikaners and Nigerians may have tired of the wars but they still hate the American. The Nigerians especially have had more than their fair share of conflict with the Liberian vagabonds. Meanwhile Afrikaners hardly wish to give the false-lights of American republicanism free reign in their territories.

Most Indians would probably wish to be neutral, although many gladly take the silver available for services rendered to the Queen-Empress. The repeated raids (if litttle more than pin-pricks) on Indian territories by the American Pacific fleet and her crude allies earn them little favour.

Such goes double for Australasians. Being the third most engaged of the true English speaking nations tends to inspire some loyalty. Every time there is a war the Americans attempt to isolate the Australians from their brothers. The Australians know that should the Indonesian chain break there will be nothing between them and the naval bases of the Phillipines, Formosa and Japan.

The fact that the USA has stopped giving support to both radical Zionist and Islamic rebels in the territory of Germany's Ottoman allies has also helped thaw relations at least a little bit.

As for Germany, while the second tier of her political system may wish for some independence this is not shared by the traditional elites. American republicanism seems the inevitable result of the nouveau-riche, or even worse industrialists, getting too much political power. If the USA would open up "fortress America" to German investment and influence than I am sure relations would be much improved but we know such will never take place. The USA waving her hands over some minor terrorist organisations in the weakest of the Ottoman Empires is hardly going to lead to sweeping changes in international relations.
 
A mere 6 hours ago , the much feared project Mennon Gambit was finally unleashed . Over three hundered miles of North Western Canada has just been vapourized by the American Solar Photon cannons . I fear that this conflict will be nuclear , like the eight AA war .

Have been reading too much Harrison pulps, haven't you? If we had those as you claimed, the 8th AAW would had been a cakewalk for us.
 
Top