DBWI: The Great State of Texas?

As we all know, Texas rebelled against Mexico in the mid 1830's and established itself as a republic, and of course later involved its ally the United States in a war against Mexico from 1846-1848 (OOC: Lets say the US gets the Mexican cession area of the OTL or at least a good chunk of the northern half and Texas just gets all the land it claimed).
Throughout that conflict and the time before, there was much talk about Texas joining the Union as another state. However, it obviously never quite came to fruition.

So what would happen if the Republic of Texas had not remained independent and joined the United States as a state?

OOC: The immediate history from the POD is not too different. The Civil war still happens. Still Lincoln and Davis. Etc.

*I'm not saying the CSA still exist with that, though I guess you could bring up that it indeed does,
 
well, for starters, the USA might be bigger.
with all the land Texas took, that would be worth....atlest two more states, excluding texas itself.
 
IC: The US gets free access to the oil that was discovered in Texas in 1937. If you want to use the Dragonfly Effect(1), you could alter that date by about ten years either way.

You might have Mexico get slapped down by the US when it's internal problems can't be contained on the Mexican side of the border, rather than having the latest Mexico-Texas grudge-match light off a general war among all of the 'American Powers' that needs the intervention of the Empire to put a stop to the madness.

With Texas and the '*Allied States'(2) still in the Union, the Yanks might not get sucked into the 'Collectivist Wars'(3) of the mid-to-late 20th Century. Hell, Collectivism as an ideology might just be 'Dragonflied' away. Along with such other vile beliefs as 'Falangism'(4) and 'Chauvinism'(5).

OOC: The 20th century was pretty much inevitably going to be a time of turmoil, it was just a matter of when all hell broke loose, not if it was even going to in the first place. technology lagged behind ours until the big wars in the middle of the century, and still are behind in some areas, (transportation is a good example, this world's latest jet aircraft would not have been out of place in the 1970s in our world, rocketry is where we were in the mid 1960s at present), but are way ahead in others, such as medicine and communications. (Apart from satellites, which they are only developing. Everything is currently run over fiber optic cables, and better than two in three own a cell-phone, even if they call one by a different name.)

1. For an alt-butterfly effect, one can substitute just about ay flashy flying creature, so it could just as easily be called the 'Hummingbird Effect'. Using analogy like that is a simple and effective way to explain chaos theory and how a small change can have enormous effects.

2. An Alt-CSA, doesn't include Texas, (obviously), Virginia or Kentucky. gained independence via a referendum following a short, inconclusive war. Lincoln came to power in the US on a platform of preventing any other state from seceding. Jeff Davis was Lincoln's successor as president, elected in 1872.

3. Alt 'World Wars', first one was from 1947-55, second was from 1966-70, and the third was from 1991-1993, nuclear weapons came in 1969, and ICBM type weapons came in 1993. For an idea of what the last one would be like, the combat scenes in 'Red Storm Rising' would be an accurate description, until the nuclear missile bit, that is. For that, 'The Day After' would be a good example, but the barrage would be completely one sided. Collectivism itself is an Alt-Communist type 'people's dictatorship', with an economy more or less on the lines of present day China. The ideology is also called Marxism, though both the alt-Marx and the real one would be appalled to see it. The last traces of this toxic ideology were scourged away by a massive bombardment of nuclear weapons in 1993.

4. Alt-Fascism. As in Italian style, complete with a Mussolini type dictator in charge. IOTL Falangism was the name given to Spanish, Portuguese, and Latin American versions of fascism. Here Fascism first arose in Spain, and apart from it's nasty, racist, French variant, has never been completely discredited, sort of like some forms of communism IOTL.

5. Alt-Nazis. French alt-Nazis. With a Napoleon complex to boot. managed to pull off an (admittedly unsuccessful) invasion of Great Britain before being crushed under the weight of both the British Empire and the Americans. (Who seriously resented having their trade disrupted by foreigners.) Managed to conquer most of non-Russian Europe before being crushed under a weight of numbers in 1970. With Europe then being split between what was under British control and what was conquered by Turkish (of all things) collectivists forces.
 
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OOC: I'm gonna have to shoot you down on the Civil War. Stuff in the short term in this universe has to be the same overall, which I wrote as a rule up there. IE, Lincoln wins the election, the South secedes with Davis as President and war comes between the states. No Virginia in the CSA is a maybe, but a big maybe which I will rule as canon which can be modified if someone would like to retcon it. And from the Civil war on, stuff can start to ripple.

I also ask that you don't pan out all the universe on your own. As this is a DBWI, information -especially if its heavy info- should be revealed in dialogue peices like "Oh, that Hitler was a crazy guy, I'm glad they shot him before he took power", and you should give everyone a say as much as possible in shaping the reality. So I can't allow a lot of what was posted as OOC data to be in the canon as its just too much and -no offense- too deviant to me. Mostly 3 and to a lesser degree 2. Everything IC is fine as that can be interpreted in a few ways and added onto. For example, you can still work in a WW1 from 1914-1918 in there or something like that.
 
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OOC: I'm gonna have to shoot you down on the Civil War. Stuff in the short term in this universe has to be the same overall, which I wrote as a rule up there. IE, Lincoln wins the election, the South secedes with Davis as President and war comes between the states. No Virginia in the CSA is a maybe, but a big maybe which I will rule as canon which can be modified if someone would like to retcon it. And from the Civil war on, stuff can start to ripple.

I also ask that you don't pan out all the universe on your own. As this is a DBWI, information -especially if its heavy info- should be revealed in dialogue peices like "Oh, that Hitler was a crazy guy, I'm glad they shot him before he took power", and you should give everyone a say as much as possible in shaping the reality. So I can't allow a lot of what was posted as OOC data to be in the canon as its just too much and -no offense- too deviant to me. Mostly 3 and to a lesser degree 2. Everything IC is fine as that can be interpreted in a few ways and added onto. For example, you can still work in a WW1 from 1914-1918 in there or something like that.

OOC: The civil war bit was a half assed attempt at a retcon because somebody (me) missed a bit of the first post. Lincoln could well have been stuck with a congress that didn't support him, and thus the war got lost before it could really begin, (say it starts a bit late, oh summer 1861 and is over within 18 months at most), but to a neutral observer, it would like like an inconclusive fight. A referendum would be congress' fuck you to Lincoln for pushing the mess too far. Jeff Davis was from Virginia, so if Virginia isn't in the Alt-CSA, then he can't be it's president.

The Alt-WWI could very well have started in the fall of 1914 and been over by Christmas. It didn't have to turn into the hell that the OTL war was. There could also have been a number of 6 to 13 months reruns of that war over the next twenty years or so. This just delays the horrors, but doesn't prevent them.

Let me guess, communists as the bad guys and both fascists and communists as cold war rivals is the issue here? Or is it the later nuclear annihilation of the communist bloc that is overdone? IMHO communism was/is just as repulsive, barbaric and disgusting as fascism, but because we were already in a war with the fascists/nazis, we got stuck in an unholy alliance with the communists. Either way we'd have been at brink of nuclear war with the survivor of those two ideologies for the next couple of generations. Did we choose right? Or was there not right choice to make?
 
OOC: Can we play too RCAFBrat? :p

OOC: Yes, just assume that some (as much as you feel want) of what I've written is from a biased, revisionist school of thought, and feel free to tell the 'truth' as you see it. Or post a 'correction' and I'll edit my first post to comply with it.
 
OOC: The civil war bit was a half assed attempt at a retcon because somebody (me) missed a bit of the first post. Lincoln could well have been stuck with a congress that didn't support him, and thus the war got lost before it could really begin, (say it starts a bit late, oh summer 1861 and is over within 18 months at most), but to a neutral observer, it would like like an inconclusive fight. A referendum would be congress' fuck you to Lincoln for pushing the mess too far. Jeff Davis was from Virginia, so if Virginia isn't in the Alt-CSA, then he can't be it's president.

No, Davis was born in Kentucky and his family moved to Mississippi when Davis was still only a few years old and he became the representative and senator of that state. Davis also became President of the CSA before Virginia became a Confederate State anyway. And still, there is the short term rule I put in place and I even listed Davis and Lincoln specifically too.

The Alt-WWI could very well have started in the fall of 1914 and been over by Christmas. It didn't have to turn into the hell that the OTL war was. There could also have been a number of 6 to 13 months reruns of that war over the next twenty years or so. This just delays the horrors, but doesn't prevent them.
Europe was a powder keg, so any war like that is going to explode. Too many alliances helping out each other leading to too many power blocs. I don't think you can realistically have it be that short of a war.

Let me guess, communists as the bad guys and both fascists and communists as cold war rivals is the issue here? Or is it the later nuclear annihilation of the communist bloc that is overdone? IMHO communism was/is just as repulsive, barbaric and disgusting as fascism, but because we were already in a war with the fascists/nazis, we got stuck in an unholy alliance with the communists. Either way we'd have been at brink of nuclear war with the survivor of those two ideologies for the next couple of generations. Did we choose right? Or was there not right choice to make?
My problem is that it is butterfly mayhem with all that. I can understand an alternate history, but you've pretty much planned out the whole 20th century, and disallowed a plethora of things -both in the ability of others to add a lot of things, and what content could be added-, and any normal WW1 (and I think whatever happens in WW1 is where you get world wide butterflies allowed) or WW2 type situation. Again, IC is fine since its vague enough to allow others to chim in with there ideas, but I can't allow OOC.
 
Obviously the South would win the Civil War if Texas joined the Union. They'd certainly be admitted as a slave state and join with the South after Lincoln's elected.

With Albert Sidney Johnson, the same guy who won the 2nd Texan-Mexican war despite being heavily outnumbered, plus some 50,000 soldiers from Texas, the south is sure to win the war rather quickly.
 
No, Davis was born in Kentucky and his family moved to Mississippi when Davis was still only a few years old and he became the representative and senator of that state. Davis also became President of the CSA before Virginia became a Confederate State anyway. And still, there is the short term rule I put in place and I even listed Davis and Lincoln specifically too.

Europe was a powder keg, so any war like that is going to explode. Too many alliances helping out each other leading to too many power blocs. I don't think you can realistically have it be that short of a war.

My problem is that it is butterfly mayhem with all that. I can understand an alternate history, but you've pretty much planned out the whole 20th century, and disallowed a plethora of things -both in the ability of others to add a lot of things, and what content could be added-, and any normal WW1 (and I think whatever happens in WW1 is where you get world wide butterflies allowed) or WW2 type situation. Again, IC is fine since its vague enough to allow others to chim in with there ideas, but I can't allow OOC.

OOC: Then just view the OOC stuff I wrote in that post as (either/both) non-canon or part of a in-world counterfactual universe. I was just going to go with the first remark about the oil, but the rest popped into my head and I ah just ran with it. It seemed too good to just abandon it...
 
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