DBWI The Arab's conquer Egypt

There have been hundreds of attempts by the arabs, the turks, and quite a few other islamic armies to conquer Egypt all of them failed, but what if they had actually pulled it off what would our world look like today?
 
Well, if you don't count them walking across Egypt into Nubia then I think they would have captured N.A as well. Would the Crusades of the 11th century fail even harder with a Muslim Egypt? I mean, we barely lost the Third One, but the rest doomed everything. I mean, having Islam in North Africa might unify Hispania sooner than the 1870s, but other than that, I can really only imagine butterflies of the Romans holding Egypt after the loss of the Levant.
Well, maybe the revival of they Ancient religion would have never happen.
Revival? You mean those ridiculous cults around the desert?;)
 
Well, if you don't count them walking across Egypt into Nubia then I think they would have captured N.A as well. Would the Crusades of the 11th century fail even harder with a Muslim Egypt? I mean, we barely lost the Third One, but the rest doomed everything. I mean, having Islam in North Africa might unify Hispania sooner than the 1870s, but other than that, I can really only imagine butterflies of the Romans holding Egypt after the loss of the Levant.

Revival? You mean those ridiculous cults around the desert?;)

The Eastern Empire could have held onto Eqypt if they had simply left the coptic church alone.
 
Well for starters, the Coptic Church would be a lot smaller, and the Miaphysite community in general. Also, the Berbers would be Islamizied if they spread all the way across North Africa. I imagine this would cause butterflies for the Christianization of West Africa.

Considering how much influence Carthage has in the Catholic Church, and the Berber kingdoms in evangelization, Christianity will be a lot less vibrant. Papal power would definitely be centralized without having the Primate of Africa existing as an alternate (if not subservient) center of power.

With indigenous Christian populations like the Mali Empire, Mauritania, Numidia, and the Kongo gone, would Europe be more interested in colonialism?
 
Well for starters, the Coptic Church would be a lot smaller, and the Miaphysite community in general. Also, the Berbers would be Islamizied if they spread all the way across North Africa. I imagine this would cause butterflies for the Christianization of West Africa.

Considering how much influence Carthage has in the Catholic Church, and the Berber kingdoms in evangelization, Christianity will be a lot less vibrant. Papal power would definitely be centralized without having the Primate of Africa existing as an alternate (if not subservient) center of power.

With indigenous Christian populations like the Mali Empire, Mauritania, Numidia, and the Kongo gone, would Europe be more interested in colonialism?

Mali technically had a Muslim majority but was ruled by a Christian elite. Numidia isn't really indigenous considering how much it was Romanized. Kongo is a wildcard, they have had Muslim, Pagan, Christian, and even one Jewish King, due to being an elected monarchy.
 
Mali technically had a Muslim majority but was ruled by a Christian elite. Numidia isn't really indigenous considering how much it was Romanized. Kongo is a wildcard, they have had Muslim, Pagan, Christian, and even one Jewish King, due to being an elected monarchy.

Yeah, but Mali converted a lot of its population by itself. Enslaving infidels is an effective means to do so. The Kingdom of Kongo also was deemed Christian enough by the Bishop of Carthage to plead their case against having the French and Portuguese take over by sending the Jesuits and Dominicans. Thus, they managed to escape colonial rule.
 
There have been hundreds of attempts by the arabs, the turks, and quite a few other islamic armies to conquer Egypt all of them failed, but what if they had actually pulled it off what would our world look like today?

Egypt would probably become majority Islamic, with maybe a substantial Christian minority. I imagine the culture would stay fundamentally the same, and Egyptian-speaking. A sort of North African version of Persia. I imagine with Egypt converted, huge swaths of other parts of Africa would be converted to Islam as well, and the Islamic world rather than Europe would continue to lead the world in science and technology. Could we be looking at an Islamic discovery of and colonization of the Americas? Europe is arguably still positioned better for it geographically, but in this TL I think the Islamic world might get there first.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
A sort of North African version of Persia. I imagine with Egypt converted, huge swaths of other parts of Africa would be converted to Islam as well, and the Islamic world rather than Europe would continue to lead the world in science and technology. Could we be looking at an Islamic discovery of and colonization of the Americas? Europe is arguably still positioned better for it geographically, but in this TL I think the Islamic world might get there first.

I'm not sure they would - an Islamic Egypt could end up making the not-irregular Caliphate Conflicts even worse!

Rather than just Persia and Arabia (and initially the Levantines) fighting for the role of Caliph, we'd have Egypt, and maybe North Africa (and if we're giggling, Spain) as major bases of power that claimants would use. Rather than three (then two) contenders duking it out, we could see 4, 5 or 6!

After all, it was the destruction in the 1st and 4th Caliphate Conflicts that REALLY tore the intellectual establishment of Islam apart. Make that any worse, and Europe could end up having a greater lead technologically.

Hell, combine that increased amount of chaos with the conquests of intervention that the Romans did to reconquer the Levant? We could end up seeing a Roman conquest of West Africa happen quite early on, rather than the inheritance it ended up being IRL. (Maybe even see them succeed in their attempt to be seen as the Protector of the Sacred Sites of Islam) The Romans are a powerful force even now, especially as the only non-cultural Nation State - make them bigger, sooner? Eeesh.
 
There is no way the Arabs could hold Egypt, it is just too vast given their other conquests. Sure they might hold it for a few years but rebellion would be inevitable and they'd be sent packing back East. It'd be a quagmire, like Vietnam was for the Burmese.
 
The Arabic conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries were already wildly successful, I seriously doubt they would have the capacity to conquer Egypt as well. Consider that the Arabs inflicted crushing defeats on the Byzantine and Persian Empires, and in the case of the latter utterly smote them. Sure, the Byzantines struggled to contain the onslaught, but the Arab campaign was always a matter of deciding between conquering Persia or conquering Byzantium — they could not take both. Perhaps if Abu Bakr decided to concentrate only on Byzantium and tackle Persia later then maybe (a big maybe) they could conquer Egypt. But while his forces are divided there are limits to what they can absorb.
 
Well if it wasn't for the constant wars with the Romans Islam would have spread around the med through trade like it did in the Indian ocean, the Arabs may have been the fastest conquers before the Mongol but they were even better traders.
 
Can't imagine it would have lasted. Surely the Copts would have fought to the last!

the Coptic peoples were not always the Spartans of Africa, their history of military success was forged during the Coptic rebellions. if the Romans had been in charge they probably would have screwed it up. probably by wasting even more blood and treasure in the Balkans.
 
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