DBWI: Switch the fates of Kim Jung Il and Vaclav Havel

So, today has been a pretty tumultuous day for world leaders--both eccentric Czech dictator Vaclav Havel and famed anti-Communist activist and former president of the Korean Republic Kim Jung Il passed away today.

This set to me to thinking: what would it have taken to reverse the fates of these two figures? I'm thinking the end of the Second World War would be a good place to start: get the Soviets more focused on the East, maybe?
 
Good riddance to Havel I say. Between the solid gold statue of himself in Prague and God knows how many Slovaks in camps or "disappeared" its high time he ate it.

As far as reversing them, its easier to move Kim than Havel. Kim was a revolutionary from the get-go and one of the unlikely proteges of Macarthur's "soft underbelly" campaign through Korea and occupied China. Now if you recall most thought Mac was nuts to suggest that a second front be opened on the Japanese in East Asia, but it really ended up paying dividends in the long-run I think between breaking communist influences via soft power and encircling the Japanese home islands. I think if we don't launch that campaign and stick with island-hopping our way across the Pacific, Mao and maybe Stalin get to Kim before we do. In the war he cared more about throwing the Japanese out than anything, he would've taken whatever weapons anyone was going to give him and the ideology to go with it.

Someone else can take Havel, there's no whitewashing that one I think.
 
As far as reversing them, its easier to move Kim than Havel. Kim was a revolutionary from the get-go and one of the unlikely proteges of Macarthur's "soft underbelly" campaign through Korea and occupied China. Now if you recall most thought Mac was nuts to suggest that a second front be opened on the Japanese in East Asia, but it really ended up paying dividends in the long-run I think between breaking communist influences via soft power and encircling the Japanese home islands. I think if we don't launch that campaign and stick with island-hopping our way across the Pacific, Mao and maybe Stalin get to Kim before we do. In the war he cared more about throwing the Japanese out than anything, he would've taken whatever weapons anyone was going to give him and the ideology to go with it.

Kim Il Sung was in the Soviet Union from 1941, and was essentially installed as leader by the Soviets when they rolled in. Having him as leader of the whole peninsula would be interesting, it would be more difficult for him to deal with the domestic communists and such due to their having access to their power base in Seoul. That makes it difficult for Kim the first to secure absolute power, and instead politics in the DPRK follow the one man rule => oligarchy => one man rule pattern of most of the Eastern bloc. Less isolated and slightly less unpleasant (but not by much), an early 1990's Seoul Spring brings down the government. But famed film director Kim Jong Il uses his fathers reputation ITTL, Kim Il Sung mainly associated with the independence struggle, and after being somewhat rudely ousted in the late 1950's by political enemies, those same enemies get the blame for the slow decline of the DPRK economy and it's subordinance to the USSR, and KJI is able to use that to paint his father as a nationalist hero. Having less access to expensive medical care throughout his life compared to OTL, KJI's health takes a turn for the worse in the late 1990's and he retires from politics to recover. He spends the early 2000s he goes back to film-making and stage directing,and is acclaimed for his role in bringing down Communist rule in Korea.

Not sure what to do about Havel though.
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Kim Il Sung was in the Soviet Union from 1941, and was essentially installed as leader by the Soviets when they rolled in.
No, he fought his way to power. Unlike the usual Soviet installments in Eastern Europe, Kim Il Sung based his power on his partisan records (blown up as they would be in propaganda), and it was the Korean War that firmly allowed him to plant his feet into DPRK permanently.
 
Not sure what to do about Havel though.

It's hard to say for sure with all the propaganda the Czechs put out about the Vážení Vedoucí, but I've heard Havel dabbled in the arts when he was younger. (Theater, if I'm remembering correctly.) Maybe if he doesn't get involved with the Communist Party early on he could end up going down that route instead.

Or maybe the US puts more troops into Europe? Is there any way we could have gotten to Prague before the Soviets?

Somewhat tactless timing of the thread, even by the standards (?) of this forum.

OOC: Well, I aiming more for "topical"... :eek:
 
No, he fought his way to power. Unlike the usual Soviet installments in Eastern Europe, Kim Il Sung based his power on his partisan records (blown up as they would be in propaganda), and it was the Korean War that firmly allowed him to plant his feet into DPRK permanently.

He fought his way to absolute power, but he was definitely placed into his initial position by the Soviets, after they realized Cho Man Sik was a lost cause. It is unlikely he would have been able to reach the position he did without Soviet support. Of course, once he'd done that he managed to wipe out all internal opposition and secure his power base. Just in the nick of time, considering he would have been swept away in the winds of anti-Stalinism if he had not.
 
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