DBWI: "Sons of Liberty" in a successful ARW

Congressman

Banned
We all know that after the First American Revolution, the Sons of Liberty fled British North America and went to places such as New Orleans and Mexico, or to Europe under the protection of France and Spain.

After most of the Founding Fathers died in exile in Paris, the Sons of Liberty kept fighting, helping start the French Revolution and fighting for Napoleon against the hated British. Some even say the strong Republican presence prevented Napoleon from becoming Emperor.

Later, they help secure independence for Texas and later California. At the turn of the century, the group went radical, with bombings and Assassinations all across the British Empire, which later to final victory in the Third American Revolution.

So, how would the group be different if the Americans won so long ago. And what force would they later play?

OCC: Image an American IRA, funded by France, Spain, and the Dutch.
 
We all know that after the First American Revolution, the Sons of Liberty fled British North America and went to places such as New Orleans and Mexico, or to Europe under the protection of France and Spain.

After most of the Founding Fathers died in exile in Paris, the Sons of Liberty kept fighting, helping start the French Revolution and fighting for Napoleon against the hated British. Some even say the strong Republican presence prevented Napoleon from becoming Emperor.

Later, they help secure independence for Texas and later California. At the turn of the century, the group went radical, with bombings and Assassinations all across the British Empire, which later to final victory in the Third American Revolution.

So, how would the group be different if the Americans won so long ago. And what force would they later play?

OCC: Image an American IRA, funded by France, Spain, and the Dutch.

TBH, I don't think the Sons of Liberty, as we know them, would have ever come around had the first ARW succeeded; in fact, they only formed some time after the secessionist Northern Provinces lost the Civil War(although there were predecessors, like the "Crispus Attucks Brigade", who helped slaves flee north into Canada....); although, to be honest, they do deserve a little credit for helping convince the southern Provinces to finally abolish slavery in the 1870s(do remember, though, this was before they all became gun-toting radicals).

One thing I can think of, though, is that perhaps, as in Stephen Sobel's "For Want of a Nail", the Loyalists flee into Canada, and create a dominion there.....which might or might not see an independence movement(in his book, there was a rebellion in 1837-38 that had a real chance of success!).
 
Well, the more radical bent in the mid-20th century aside, the Sons of Liberty for most of its existence acted as an internationalist brotherhood dedicated toward spreading the enlightenment ideals of the First Sons of Liberty so tragically stamped out in the First American Revolution. Had they succeeded, they may have been so focused on creating a functioning republic out of the Sixteen Colonies that they'd not have had the energy or focus to help nurture and support those same ideals elsewhere.

That alone would have massive consequences - as you mentioned yourself, the role many of the exiles Sons of Liberty, like Adams, Jefferson, Paine, Franklin and the like had on the French Revolution was tremendous. The debates and exchanges between them and their French contemporaries like Bonaparte, du Motier and the like, the first European Constitution, the Declaration of the Rights of Man, all were so formative to the creation of the French and evolution of the European Republic formed from the Coalition Wars.

Hell, without those ideals, could the French and their eventual German and Italian brothers in arms have beaten back wave after wave of whatever the old European monarchies could throw at them? Those stunning victories of the newly minted Republic over whatever forces the British and the Haspburgs tossed at them was what legitimized modern republicanism.

Had the first American Revolution been successful, Republicanism may have won in the colonies, but at the price of the world.
 
You said it yourself: no independent California. Which would later mean no formation of los Estados Unidos de la Pacífica when California under President Juarez absorbed the territories to the North. So it could butterfly away one of the richest nations in North America...

Actually, if British North America had achieved independence... I wonder could the West Coast have ended up Anglophone rather than Hispanophone?

California actually *is* significantly Anglophone these days, though. I mean, true, it *started out* Hispanophone, but hasn't actually been majority Spanish speaking since the turn of the last century; and that's primarily thanks to the large number of Welsh, Cornish, Irish and Canadians who settled here; I should know, being a native Californian myself.

Also, do realize that Juarez's proposed Union of Pacifica actually failed, because some members of the National Congress insisted that Spanish be *the* official language, something which most residents of the Oregon Country wouldn't have stood for. Of course, it can be admitted that there's been some talks between California and Cascadia into reviving this age-old idea, but it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

OOC: Yeah.....sorry, but I'm not buying the Hispanophone Pacifica thing; An independent California would certainly have attracted large numbers of English speakers in a no-ARW world eventually, for one. And for two, given settlement patterns in the Oregon country being anything even remotely similar to OTL.....yeah, the people there wouldn't have put up with Spanish being the only official language. So I'm afraid your idea isn't quite plausible.
 
OOC: Yeah.....sorry, but I'm not buying the Hispanophone Pacifica thing; An independent California would certainly have attracted large numbers of English speakers in a no-ARW world eventually, for one. And for two, given settlement patterns in the Oregon country being anything even remotely similar to OTL.....yeah, the people there wouldn't have put up with Spanish being the only official language. So I'm afraid your idea isn't quite plausible.

OOC: Fair enough. I'd thought that a surviving British North America might screw up the Anglophone settlement patterns enough that it would be a feasible idea...but you're right. The West would inevitably draw Anglophone settlers... Deleted, and I'll make the suggestion I was originally planning :)

IC: Well, odds are the Sons of Liberty wouldn't have helped in the Latin American revolutions. So the Federal Republic of Colombia [OOC: Think a larger, more stable version of Gran Colombia - I know Bolivar's activities would be butterflied away, but odds are someone else like him would have emerged] probably wouldn't exist.

I also wonder: would the Philippines have still become part of the Shogunate of Japan? [OOC: A somewhat different opening of Japan, I imagine] That'd be interesting: after decades of colonisation and assimilation, the native people of the islands are pretty much gone as a separate culture. Maybe they'd survive ITTL?
 
Last edited:
Top