DBWI: Some serious blows to the Empire...

Here's a couple of WI's that could seriously damage, if not destroy, the Empire as we know it, especially in tandem.

1) Change the outcome of the First American Rebellion. Either have it never happen at all, or have the fighting continue. Now, you're probably thinking, "Didn't the Americans win?" They got what they initially asked for, yes, but at the time the proposal was sent, the thinking in America was that it was too little, too late on account of all the blood that had been shed--if France hadn't dropped out of the fight because it had its own problems to deal with, the Americans would have gone for full independence. Either way, you delay the conception and implementation of the dominion system, and in the latter case you cut out the heart of Imperial North America.

2) Either get rid of Sir Nigel Berry-Thorne or prevent him from publishing A Treatise on the Fates of Civilizations (OOC: basically Guns, Germs, and Steel written in the 1820s). Sir Nigel's original treatise was severely full of holes, but it served a very important purpose: it was an explanation of why the world looked the way it did that didn't rely on "Der, maybe white people are just smarter than everyone else?" I know Sir Nigel didn't end racism with a stroke of the pen or anything, but he gave anti-racists a theory to fall back on--and therefore, a voice in science and politics.

But getting rid of him wouldn't just make the Empire more terrible, it could destroy it. There was nearly enough opposition to the Dominion of Nigeria and the Indian dominions IOTL to end them--now imagine a world that's even a bit more racist. (And, if you're doing the first POD, Sir Nigel can simply be butterflied away.) The Indian dominions were the last to be admitted, remember--people were afraid that "the British Empire" would become "India and her little buddies", and to a very limited extent were right; these days it's simply "the Empire" and Britain is simply four Dominions among many, after all.
 
Here's a couple of WI's that could seriously damage, if not destroy, the Empire as we know it, especially in tandem.

1) Change the outcome of the First American Rebellion. Either have it never happen at all, or have the fighting continue. Now, you're probably thinking, "Didn't the Americans win?" They got what they initially asked for, yes, but at the time the proposal was sent, the thinking in America was that it was too little, too late on account of all the blood that had been shed--if France hadn't dropped out of the fight because it had its own problems to deal with, the Americans would have gone for full independence. Either way, you delay the conception and implementation of the dominion system, and in the latter case you cut out the heart of Imperial North America.

2) Either get rid of Sir Nigel Berry-Thorne or prevent him from publishing A Treatise on the Fates of Civilizations (OOC: basically Guns, Germs, and Steel written in the 1820s). Sir Nigel's original treatise was severely full of holes, but it served a very important purpose: it was an explanation of why the world looked the way it did that didn't rely on "Der, maybe white people are just smarter than everyone else?" I know Sir Nigel didn't end racism with a stroke of the pen or anything, but he gave anti-racists a theory to fall back on--and therefore, a voice in science and politics.

But getting rid of him wouldn't just make the Empire more terrible, it could destroy it. There was nearly enough opposition to the Dominion of Nigeria and the Indian dominions IOTL to end them--now imagine a world that's even a bit more racist. (And, if you're doing the first POD, Sir Nigel can simply be butterflied away.) The Indian dominions were the last to be admitted, remember--people were afraid that "the British Empire" would become "India and her little buddies", and to a very limited extent were right; these days it's simply "the Empire" and Britain is simply four Dominions among many, after all.

Well, I dunno. One thing you have to realize that Sir Berry-Thorne's treatise, while quite-groundbreaking, wasn't exactly well known until 1880(18 years after his death), and it was here in the Commonwealth of Pacifica were it first received the press it deserved, thanks to his grandson, a professor at the University of California here in Santa Clara.

But when it was republished, it did indeed change the empire. For one, it's adoption by many liberals and moderates finally convinced the Southern American colonies to liberalize and end slavery once and for all(Californian abolitionism certainly helped, however!).

Perhaps with an independent America, you might see this happen quite a bit earlier, if Sir Nigel survives the POD; although born in Britain proper, he did spend much of his childhood in Boston & Providence, Rhode Island.(on the other hand, though, it may delay the abolition of slavery slightly, unless TTL's U.S. undergoes a Civil War, and the abolitionists win, as it did in Mr. Turtledove's "American Victory" from the '70s.)

OOC: Pacifica covers pretty much the entire OTL U.S. west(including Hawa'ii, but excepting Alaska, the latter of which is either it's own country or also a British dominion, depending on your preferences, smjb.) as well as parts of British Columbia, and Baja Cal. and Sonora & northern Chihuahua as well. It is not a British dominion, though; it is, in fact, perhaps the closest thing to a U.S. analogue this world really has. The ATL Turtledove's timeline is essentially a facsimile of our own universe.
 
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OOC: You realize that abolition happened in Britain in the 1830s, right?

EDIT: I suppose being a dominion/series of dominions with it's own laws might change circumstances...
 
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Well, I dunno. One thing you have to realize that Sir Berry-Thorne's treatise, while quite-groundbreaking, wasn't exactly well known until 1880(18 years after his death), and it was here in the Commonwealth of Pacifica were it first received the press it deserved, thanks to his grandson, a professor at the University of California here in Santa Clara.

But when it was republished, it did indeed change the empire. For one, it's adoption by many liberals and moderates finally convinced the Southern American colonies to liberalize and end slavery once and for all(Californian abolitionism certainly helped, however!).

Perhaps with an independent America, you might see this happen quite a bit earlier, if Sir Nigel survives the POD; although born in Britain proper, he did spend much of his childhood in Boston & Providence, Rhode Island.(on the other hand, though, it may delay the abolition of slavery slightly, unless TTL's U.S. undergoes a Civil War, and the abolitionists win, as it did in Mr. Turtledove's "American Victory" from the '70s.)

OOC: Pacifica covers pretty much the entire OTL U.S. west(including Hawa'ii, but excepting Alaska, the latter of which is either it's own country or also a British dominion, depending on your preferences, smjb.) as well as parts of British Columbia, and Baja Cal. and Sonora & northern Chihuahua as well. It is not a British dominion, though; it is, in fact, perhaps the closest thing to a U.S. analogue this world really has. The ATL Turtledove's timeline is essentially a facsimile of our own universe.
See, that's my problem with Turtledove's works--the further you go, the more like OTL it becomes. Why on Earth would the war over slavery in an independent America so closely resemble the Second American Rebellion? Right down to the dates? It's madness.
 
OOC: You realize that abolition happened in Britain in the 1830s, right?

EDIT: I suppose being a dominion/series of dominions with it's own laws might change circumstances...

OOC: Yes, I do, but I would suspect the circumstances would likely change in such a scenario, and probably not for the better. Slavery would probably end not much later than OTL, in most places, but it's the Caribbean that presents a problem, as well as the *South.

See, that's my problem with Turtledove's works--the further you go, the more like OTL it becomes. Why on Earth would the war over slavery in an independent America so closely resemble the Second American Rebellion? Right down to the dates? It's madness.

IC: Second American Rebellion? That's rather antiquated, don'tcha think? The main reason it doesn't make so much sense is that the Southern Dominions were not exactly united. There were three, actually: Virginia, Carolina, and Georgia; which is why it's typically referred to as the Planters' Rebellion. I'd also like to point out that slavery entirely ended immediately after the Civil War in Turtledove's world, whereas the Planter's Rebellion only resulted in slavery being gradually phased out in the Caribbean and reforms in the Southern Dominions; only in the 1880s did slavery finally end in the latter region (Most here in California will agree that the Freedom and Abolition Act of 1886 was the starting point for that).

OOC: So, I'm guessing this world turned out much like ours, according to this post? Because I did mention earlier that Turtledove's TL was basically our own world.
 
Hey, I'm a North American too, but as far as the rest of the Empire is concerned, it's the second time colonies in the Americas rebelled, therefore it's the Second American Rebellion.
 
OOC: literally one of the PODs is that this world is less racist than ours.

OOC: Well, I saw that. But I'll admit I was confused by the post concerning Turtledove's world becoming more and more convergent with TTL. Could you please clarify that, if you would?

Hey, I'm a North American too, but as far as the rest of the Empire is concerned, it's the second time colonies in the Americas rebelled, therefore it's the Second American Rebellion.

IC: Well, I guess you do have a point there. I guess it's just because I'm from Pacifica and we learned history from a slightly different perspective. :)
 
OOC: This world doesn't end up like ours. But the reason I called the *Revolution the First Rebellion in the first post was that I figured that there'd be an analog to the *Civil War ITTL, given that the same societal pressures would exist in the *South and be coming to a head sooner. The complaint of convergence was about his work in general.
 
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