DBWI: Shun Dynasty doesn't take over China

Without the Shun Dynasty, I'd say a much bloodier end of the Ming--or even a "warlord era" that never truly ends. While Li was a great emperor, it must be noted that the one thing he is most famous for is his efforts at uniting the disparate warbands of the Shun army, many of them but common bandits hoping to get rich along Li's campaigns. Without the Shun, the dynasty's armies are sure to shatter into various warlords vying for control over China. Even if the Manchus were to unite China (highly unlikely if you ask me--the Manchu-Han ratio is even smaller than the Mongol-Han ratio in the Yuan), it would take far longer than the Shun's solidification of her hegemony.
 
Without the Shun Dynasty, I'd say a much bloodier end of the Ming--or even a "warlord era" that never truly ends. While Li was a great emperor, it must be noted that the one thing he is most famous for is his efforts at uniting the disparate warbands of the Shun army, many of them but common bandits hoping to get rich along Li's campaigns. Without the Shun, the dynasty's armies are sure to shatter into various warlords vying for control over China. Even if the Manchus were to unite China (highly unlikely if you ask me--the Manchu-Han ratio is even smaller than the Mongol-Han ratio in the Yuan), it would take far longer than the Shun's solidification of her hegemony.
Yup, even historically, Zhang Xianzhong broke off from Li Zicheng's army and formed the Daxi Dynasty and even made an alliance with Ming remnants.
 
So, what would the impact of no Shun Dynasty be on the wider world? The rise of the Shun, along with the era of Emperor Shah Buland Iqbal (OOC: Dara Shikoh in OTL), probably ensured that China and India weren't sitting ducks for western imperialism. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said of the Latter Jin (OOC: The guys who in OTL became the Qing), who were Christianized by the Holy Russian Empire and became a Russian vassal state.
 
Shun Dynasty helped in prosperity of Chosun Dynasty up to 1903. And along with Japan, managed to become a superpower.
And Korea and Japan, along with Shun China, are united in their opposition to the "Holy Russian Empire" and their puppets in Manchuria as part of the struggle against the Russian-led "Holy Brotherhood of Nations" which included the Great War.
 
How do you think would a surviving Ming (or a Latter Jin which somehow took over China) have dealt with western powers? Would they be less open to innovations than the Shun (historically, there were three industrial revolutions, in Europe, China, and India)?
 
So, how much did the Great War between the "Alliance of Tolerant States" (the Mughals, Shun China, France, Poland-Lithuania, Austria, and allies) and the "Holy Brotherhood of Nations" (Russia, Britain/the Commonwealth, Mexico, the Maratha Empire (nutty Hindus), and allies) shape the modern world and why, @bhlee0019?
 
So, how much did the Great War between the "Alliance of Tolerant States" (the Mughals, Shun China, France, Poland-Lithuania, Austria, and allies) and the "Holy Brotherhood of Nations" (Russia, Britain/the Commonwealth, Mexico, the Maratha Empire (nutty Hindus), and allies) shape the modern world and why, @bhlee0019?
The Victory of Alliance of Tolerant States have Solidified Shun China's place as Superpowers. Although British Monarchy was Spared, the UK lost many of its colonies, except Canada and South Africa.
 
So, @theg*ddam*hoi2fan, what do you think would the impact of No Shun Dynasty be on the world?

Well, the Far East is effectively economically dominated by Shun China and the Japanese, and the Harmonious Accord alliance keeps them all United (with heavy Japanese influence over the southern isles (OOC: Philippines and Indonesia)). Both have spheres of influence fitting their statuses as land and sea powers respectively, but both are allied (albeit friendly rivals too :D ). Without the Shun... Who knows? Butterflies could have seen both nations becoming relatively isolated. I mean, the Shun are to thank for China weathering the storms of the past... If it had succumbed to warlordism it might have taken so long to recover that global power was impossible.
 

Kaze

Banned
The other problem is Korea. The King of Korea has an alliance with the Manchu. Say the Manchu leadership died of ... oh, say the "coughing disease of death" - the King of Korea would take it as his divine right to annex Manchuria so that he would not be the Manchurian Puppet. So there might be a very, very expansive Korea and if ASB were to help him - Korea could conqueror the whole of Northern China leaving the Ming to hold the Southern half. Maybe I will do a time line on this later...
 
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