DBWI: Russia doesn't invade Germany in 1940

What if Stalin does not order the invasion of German occupied Poland and Germany when the Germans were busy out west? Would the Germans have beaten the French? Would Germany have been in better economic shape after the war against Russia ended? Would the Red Army have overthrown Stalin if he didn't throw away a lot of their troops in a useless war?
 
What if Stalin does not order the invasion of German occupied Poland and Germany when the Germans were busy out west? Would the Germans have beaten the French? Would Germany have been in better economic shape after the war against Russia ended? Would the Red Army have overthrown Stalin if he didn't throw away a lot of their troops in a useless war?

We now know that the UK was passing false information to the Soviets indicating that the French and Germans were in the process of negociating a separate peace that would allow the Germans to turn east vs. the Soviets. Without this, I'd say Stalin probably stays out until Germany is exhausted - and considering how badly bogged down the German advance had become by October, I'd say it's unlikely the Germans could have knocked France out of the war. So, Stalin goes west in '41 or '42 rather than '40, and possibly we end up with the Red Army on the Rhine.

(BTW, it wasn't the Red Army that overthrew Stalin. It was a party coup headed by Beria - it was only later that Beria was in turn overthrown by a party/army alliance vs. Beria's secret police, when he was unable to impose his authority on a national level. The army was too firmly under control of the Party to mount a coup on it's own in Stalin's day, although after the events of '44 it became rather more autonomous).

The irony of it all was that Stalin went to war to prevent an entirely imaginary anti-Soviet entente which he ended up creating in fact - after Hitler's overthrow, the French and the British were willing to work with the Germany military to prevent the Soviets from taking central Europe, although Germany had to withdraw from it's western conquests. Getting roughly Russia's 1914 western borders in the '42 armistice hardly compensated for creating a solidly anti-Soviet European alliance.

Bruce
 
Particularly since the Communist government fell in 1952. After Stalin's fall then Beria's fall then Zhukov's death followed by another party coup people were sick and tired of the instability and wanted a clean break from the imediate past. The Neo-tsarist government that took over afterwords was at least not quite as bad as the governments that preceded it. I know officially it was a military dictatorship but when General Zabkov took over and strengthend the Eastern Orthodox church and made himself president for life and made his son the obvious successor he became Tsar in all but name.
 
Particularly since the Communist government fell in 1952. After Stalin's fall then Beria's fall then Zhukov's death followed by another party coup people were sick and tired of the instability and wanted a clean break from the imediate past. The Neo-tsarist government that took over afterwords was at least not quite as bad as the governments that preceded it. I know officially it was a military dictatorship but when General Zabkov took over and strengthend the Eastern Orthodox church and made himself president for life and made his son the obvious successor he became Tsar in all but name.

His son actually proclaimed himself Tsar of All Russians , reclaiming the title and setting up a Pseudo Constitutional Monarchy , that over time became fact . Ofcourse , there was a ra[id upsurge in Monarchism , most notably in China where the final warlord left standing after half a century of warlordism declared himself the new Emperor of China...
 
His son actually proclaimed himself Tsar of All Russians , reclaiming the title and setting up a Pseudo Constitutional Monarchy , that over time became fact . Ofcourse , there was a ra[id upsurge in Monarchism , most notably in China where the final warlord left standing after half a century of warlordism declared himself the new Emperor of China...

True, but that happened in 1973.
 
We now know that the UK was passing false information to the Soviets indicating that the French and Germans were in the process of negociating a separate peace that would allow the Germans to turn east vs. the Soviets. Without this, I'd say Stalin probably stays out until Germany is exhausted - and considering how badly bogged down the German advance had become by October, I'd say it's unlikely the Germans could have knocked France out of the war. So, Stalin goes west in '41 or '42 rather than '40, and possibly we end up with the Red Army on the Rhine.

(BTW, it wasn't the Red Army that overthrew Stalin. It was a party coup headed by Beria - it was only later that Beria was in turn overthrown by a party/army alliance vs. Beria's secret police, when he was unable to impose his authority on a national level. The army was too firmly under control of the Party to mount a coup on it's own in Stalin's day, although after the events of '44 it became rather more autonomous).

The irony of it all was that Stalin went to war to prevent an entirely imaginary anti-Soviet entente which he ended up creating in fact - after Hitler's overthrow, the French and the British were willing to work with the Germany military to prevent the Soviets from taking central Europe, although Germany had to withdraw from it's western conquests. Getting roughly Russia's 1914 western borders in the '42 armistice hardly compensated for creating a solidly anti-Soviet European alliance.

Bruce

You have to admit even they did take France the Germans would have a hard time holding it. France is far too nationalistic to hold on to. Look at the Great War, France was taking hundreds of thousands of casualties a month and it still didn't give in.
 
If he hadn't, then the Tokyo/Berlin axis might have actually come to something, As we all know, the Japs didn't want to fight the soviets anytime soon, even more so with the american threat, so If the soveits didn't invade, then we may have even seen americans fighting on two fronts!
 
If he hadn't, then the Tokyo/Berlin axis might have actually come to something, As we all know, the Japs didn't want to fight the soviets anytime soon, even more so with the american threat, so If the soveits didn't invade, then we may have even seen americans fighting on two fronts!

I find it hard to believe even the militarist government of Japan at the time could be so stupid.
 
I find it hard to believe even the militarist government of Japan at the time could be so stupid.
It's still much less stupid than their current government, what was it agian?
"Buddhist Socalist Democratic Empire of Japan?" Their entire government is a joke, just a wierd little power sharing deal, fully corupt, and completly uneffectual. Basicly you can get away with anything in Japan, but only if you can figure out who to bribe, which isn't easy, because god only knows who's really in charge of what over there.
 
The Program that drove the Turks into Bankruptcy and beggers at the door of Russian , European , American and Chinese Bankers?
Yes indeed. they wanted to show that they where ahead of every one else. I say, you shouldn't atempt such things if you can't feed your people all ready.
 
Yes indeed. they wanted to show that they where ahead of every one else. I say, you shouldn't atempt such things if you can't feed your people all ready.

True, but seeing how the West bought much of their space programs from the Turk's one cannot really argue with what they did, just how they did it is the problem. I mean even America purchased one of those Hookah looking space stations for their attempt to go the mars.
 
We now know that the UK was passing false information to the Soviets indicating that the French and Germans were in the process of negociating a separate peace that would allow the Germans to turn east vs. the Soviets. Without this, I'd say Stalin probably stays out until Germany is exhausted - and considering how badly bogged down the German advance had become by October, I'd say it's unlikely the Germans could have knocked France out of the war. So, Stalin goes west in '41 or '42 rather than '40, and possibly we end up with the Red Army on the Rhine.

(BTW, it wasn't the Red Army that overthrew Stalin. It was a party coup headed by Beria - it was only later that Beria was in turn overthrown by a party/army alliance vs. Beria's secret police, when he was unable to impose his authority on a national level. The army was too firmly under control of the Party to mount a coup on it's own in Stalin's day, although after the events of '44 it became rather more autonomous).

The irony of it all was that Stalin went to war to prevent an entirely imaginary anti-Soviet entente which he ended up creating in fact - after Hitler's overthrow, the French and the British were willing to work with the Germany military to prevent the Soviets from taking central Europe, although Germany had to withdraw from it's western conquests. Getting roughly Russia's 1914 western borders in the '42 armistice hardly compensated for creating a solidly anti-Soviet European alliance.

Bruce


Considering Stalin was a professional paranoid and an opportunist there was a fairly decent chance of his jumping Germany deceit or no.
 
Top