DBWI: Reverse the fates of the PRC and the USSR

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Mr.E, May 7, 2018.

  1. Mr.E The Man that Time Forgot

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    Exactly what reads. How to cause the People's Republic of China to reform, and not collapse, and to delay or prevent the economic reforms of the USSR and cause its collapse.
     
  2. Histor32 Well-Known Member

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    Have Nixon go to Beijing instead of Moscow of course.

    Nixons meeting with Brezhnev was instrumental in opening the eastern block and reducing tensions during the cold war period.

    The subsequent reunification of Germany ( as a natural ), the pull back of military spending combined with the new markets and manufacturing really helped bring the USSR more into the European fold.

    Mao didn't help matters either in the case of China, so it was only a matter of time before the regime collapsed upon itself since ruling so many people through fear can only last so long, and that is what did them in. noting that it all started with Taiwan and Hong Kong success stories showing how the west was succeeding and growing.

    Vietnam, Laos, support for the Kamer Rouge, Tibet, the saber rattling against Japan, support for North Korea and tensions on the peninsula have all led to its isolation.

    on the other hand, The Soviets after Prague began to open up, knowing that at some point the people would say enough is enough.

    It honestly made more sense to go to Moscow, The Soviet Union had industrial capacity and was at least on par for the most part with what the west was using. Also can you imagine a world where the Soviets and the US space programs didn't experience the renaissance that was the late 70's and 80s! I mean lunar colony in the late 80's, Humans on Mars in 1998! followed by the first scientific settlements 7 years ago.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  3. History Learner Well-Known Member

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    Kosygin doesn't replace Brezhnev following the latter's death in the early 1970s, and the Gang of Four doesn't take power later that same decade in China.
     
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  4. Maeglin Lómion

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    I've often wondered about a scenario where Brezhnev lives longer. I mean, Kosygin followed by Yakovlev led to the Capitalism With Red Flags situation, whereas Brezhnev might have preserved more of traditional Soviet Socialism?
     
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  5. Mr.E The Man that Time Forgot

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    Who might've taken over instead?

    Probably Hua Guofeng or Zhou Enlai. Would they be the Chinese Kosygin?
     
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  6. glenn67 Well-Known Member

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    If Nixon did not go to Russia, Manchuria would probably still be part of China instead of an independent country (and de facto protectorate).
     
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  7. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Isn’t a descendant of Puyi ruling Manchuria as a constitutional monarch?
     
  8. mythmonster2 Well-Known Member

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    I just think that it's not possible for countries with as many people as China to continue existing in the modern era. I mean, look at what happened to India, second most deaths in a war in history. It's a miracle the breakup of China happened without as little bloodshed as it did.
     
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  9. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Unless you count The Taiwanese reclamation of the following provinces: Fujian, Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan, Zhejiang, Jiangxi, and Hunan.
     
  10. Mr.E The Man that Time Forgot

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    A bit odd you'd list them like that, but okay

    How would Chinese and Russian immigration be affected by these events.
     
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  11. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Probably less Chinese immigration to the USA and more Russian immigration.
     
  12. FillyofDelphi Well-Known Member

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    You'd certainly have seen less in the 80's, since the first thing China needs to avoid is Mao's disastrous "Maidens for Markets" deal if China is to have a prayer of economic reform ( https://www.theage.com.au/news/world/what-mao-said-to-henry/2008/02/13/1202760396322.html )

    I mean, the lose of so many child-bearing age women triggered a real demographic crisis that no policy is going to be able to counter, and created quite a bit of social unrest as the next generation saw the family structure break down and a combined smaller workforce with a greater share of its income going to support aged parents (as is traditional in Chinese society) put the kibosh on economic growth.
     
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  13. Xgentis Member

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    A poisoned gift considering it destroyed their economy, even today the reclaimed provinces are still behind in economic development. But there is economic growth so it might have been worth it for Taiwan in the end.
     
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  14. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Yeah, plus there’s been significant increased military spending ever since they reclaimed those provinces.
     
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  15. Xgentis Member

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    Well they want to reclaim the whole Chinese mainland and made no secret that they would use force if needed and to be honest I am not sure if it is a bad thing when you see what is happening in the various Chinese cliques and warlords.
     
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  16. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Weren’t some CNN and Fox News reporters captured by the infamous Sichuan clique?
     
  17. RousseauX Donor

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    ASBish, China was too damaged by Mao to recover
     
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  18. Xgentis Member

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    There are rumor that their leader is a cannibal, I am not sure if it is true.
     
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  19. Alpha-King98760 Aku's most favorite assassin, babe!

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    Isn’t it also rumoured that he prefers to dip his “meals” in some sort of sauce?
     
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  20. Mr.E The Man that Time Forgot

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    OOC: Well, this is going way off the rails here. Let's not continue this, please.

    IC: Okay, disturbing rumors aside, if the PRC never collapsed, would we still see the rise of the Triads in Hong Kong and California?