DBWI: Protestant British Empire?

The British Empire at its peak was one of the largest empires ever, ruling about 25% of the Earth's surface. It profited from the Industrial Revolution which began in South England's Catholic heartland, and the English language, legal system, and Roman Catholic dioceses spread across the world as the British empire did. It was the largest Roman Catholic empire in history, often more loyal to the Popes than France was. After around 1600 a substantial percentage of Popes were English and Scottish.

It's hard to imagine a British Empire that wasn't Catholic. As many historians suggest, the British Empire was only possible due to the foundations laid by the "multinational Catholic leagues" of middle ages and early modern Europe. England was the last country to receive a "blank cheque" from the Pope for substantial conquests across the globe, a revision of the earlier Treaty of Tordesillas. Punitive wars against developed but sparsely populated Protestant states, such as the Swedish Empire and Crown of Prussia, were crucial for the territorial expansion of the British kingdoms and later empire.

Is a Protestant British Empire something that is even possible? How? And how would it have developed?
 
Well if the Catholic Church wasn’t so dominant in Europe we would’ve had the disasters that were the 10th and 14th crusades. The 10th crusade actually was feasible but the 14th was ridiculous. you only have to look at how many people starve to death during the great March across Siberia or the string of typhoons that destroyed the naval fleet that was supposed to invade the Chinese coast and see how overly ambitious it was to say the least.
 
Perhaps have Henry VIII convert to Protestantism.

Why would he? The dude was fanatically catholic. He personally penned tracts against major Protestant thinkers, and was the first English King to be given the title Defensor Fidei by the Pope.

I do think that the most obvious consequence would be the lack of the Franco-English Alliance that OTL managed to break the stranglehold of Hapsburg dominance--though the conversion of Austria to Protestantism also helped in that regard. Although it seemed unlikely given the old animosity of the 100YW, the accords forged on the Field of the Cloth of Gold represented a great leap forwards in the politics of Europe, with the at least nominal commitment to pacifism encouraged by Cardinal Wolsey resulting in the so-called "Cardinals' Peace" for almost 200 years under the de facto leadership of Wosley, Richelieu, Cromwell, Mazarin, and their ilk, interrupted only by brief interventions in Germany.

After the English inheritance of the Scottish throne from the childless Mary, furthermore, many Scottish Calvinists fled to Poland, providing the King's Party the military edge needed to defeat the Confederation of Lwow. As we all know, the nationalization of church lands and the breaking of the nobility's power during the Polish Reformation enabled the Union of Poland and Lithuania to become a major world power, particularly after it annexed the Muscovite Tsardom, though it later became the People's Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania-Ruthenia under the 20th century Communist regime. Who knows? Perhaps the division of the world into the "free", Catholic West and Communist, largely Protestant East would not be present ITTL...
 
This is ridiculous talking about a Protestant England. Next you'll be enquiring about a Catholic Spain...pure nonsense.

Spain... that's a name I haven't heard before. It's based off the Roman Hispania, yes? I suppose if Asturis managed to unite the penninsula, theyd likely use a name like that in the usual Catholic practice of trying to link back to either the Empire or Charlemagne. But given they're shoved up in the northwest strip of the Penninsula by Al-Andalus and only really had that breif golden age when the Biscay Whalers Stumbled on the New World (Before having to split the claims along the North-South line of the Treaty of Tordelissias between the Papist and Caliphatal World following the Crusade-Jihad of Naples), I find it hard to think you can wank the Trans-Pyranees Christians that much.
 
Spain... that's a name I haven't heard before. It's based off the Roman Hispania, yes? I suppose if Asturis managed to unite the penninsula, theyd likely use a name like that in the usual Catholic practice of trying to link back to either the Empire or Charlemagne. But given they're shoved up in the northwest strip of the Penninsula by Al-Andalus and only really had that breif golden age when the Biscay Whalers Stumbled on the New World (Before having to split the claims along the North-South line of the Treaty of Tordelissias between the Papist and Caliphatal World following the Crusade-Jihad of Naples), I find it hard to think you can wank the Trans-Pyranees Christians that much.
It is actually called Spain, well, al-espania in Mozarabic, although the name does sound strange in English.

The Muslim reconquest of Iberia was a very close run thing and probably wouldn't have happened without the Counter-Reformation. When Manuel de Asturis ransacked Castile and Aragon, it caused the Mudejares in Aragon, and the Socinians in Portugal to side with the Wattasids, much as the Church of Bosnia welcomed the Ottomans two centuries prior. Asturis' attempt to unite the peninsula might actually be the final tipping point that caused the victory of al-Andalus because it broke apart the Christian factions at that time.
 
It is actually called Spain, well, al-espania in Mozarabic, although the name does sound strange in English.

The Muslim reconquest of Iberia was a very close run thing and probably wouldn't have happened without the Counter-Reformation. When Manuel de Asturis ransacked Castile and Aragon, it caused the Mudejares in Aragon, and the Socinians in Portugal to side with the Wattasids, much as the Church of Bosnia welcomed the Ottomans two centuries prior. Asturis' attempt to unite the peninsula might actually be the final tipping point that caused the victory of al-Andalus because it broke apart the Christian factions at that time.

I thought that was a geographic rather than political term, no? Maybe I'm wrong... but I'll agree that (mostly) politically uniting the penninsula would probably be considered ASB if the "Crusader King" haden't sent the Papists into a purity spiral, basically repeating the problems brought on by the Berber zealots that brought down the First Caliphate of Cordoba. Still, having the Muslim boogyman in Western Europe WAS key in keeping the temporal power and resources of the church strong among the Western states, which probably did more than anything else to make them resistant to the attempts of the Reformation vs. the Eastern territories like Poland.
 
I thought that was a geographic rather than political term, no? Maybe I'm wrong... but I'll agree that (mostly) politically uniting the penninsula would probably be considered ASB if the "Crusader King" haden't sent the Papists into a purity spiral, basically repeating the problems brought on by the Berber zealots that brought down the First Caliphate of Cordoba. Still, having the Muslim boogyman in Western Europe WAS key in keeping the temporal power and resources of the church strong among the Western states, which probably did more than anything else to make them resistant to the attempts of the Reformation vs. the Eastern territories like Poland.

It helps that the Protestant Transylvania became a natural buffer between the Poles and Ottomans
 
It helps that the Protestant Transylvania became a natural buffer between the Poles and Ottomans
As well as the "Greek Calvinist" Cossacks (those Cossacks who refused submission to the Ottoman-appointed Eastern Patriarch).

I thought that was a geographic rather than political term, no? Maybe I'm wrong... but I'll agree that (mostly) politically uniting the penninsula would probably be considered ASB if the "Crusader King" haden't sent the Papists into a purity spiral, basically repeating the problems brought on by the Berber zealots that brought down the First Caliphate of Cordoba. Still, having the Muslim boogyman in Western Europe WAS key in keeping the temporal power and resources of the church strong among the Western states, which probably did more than anything else to make them resistant to the attempts of the Reformation vs. the Eastern territories like Poland.
The eastern monarchs also had a history of either relatively independent religious policy (Poland-Lithovonia) or an outright autocephalous church (Muscowy).

But when religious crisis occurred in the west there was only the Pope and various controlling orders to look to, creating those self destructive inquisitions on the border regions as you mention. In the "core" Christendom, such as the former Carolingian Empire, non-Polish parts of the Holy Roman Empire and of course Britannia, the counter reformation was, conversely, strengthening as we saw by the Council of Trentino.
 
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As well as the "Greek Calvinist" Cossacks (those Cossacks who refused submission to the Ottoman-appointed Eastern Patriarch).


The eastern monarchs also had a history of either relatively independent religious policy (Poland-Lithovonia) or an outright autocephalous church (Muscowy).

But when religious crisis occurred in the west there was only the Pope and various controlling orders to look to, creating those self destructive inquisitions on the border regions as you mention. In the "core" Christendom, such as the former Carolingian Empire, non-Polish parts of the Holy Roman Empire and of course Britannia, the counter reformation was, conversely, strengthening as we saw by the Council of Trentino.

Well yah... that never really surprised me. The Templar Orders (The Knights of St. John and St. Santiago, for example) were obviously going to be a safety valve for the Church to keep the "Burn the infidel!" types out of the home parishes and dumping their fire and brimestone on Italia and the south of France, allowing the more scholarly minded to rise through the ranks. As we saw in the Confusian states,that kind of clerical structure naturally lends itself to the formation of exactly the kind of technocratic regeimes that let you squeeze the maximum potential out of merchantile economies like those that dominated from the 16th-early 18th centuries throughout the world. Of course, outside Britain (where it has always been tempered by the relative civic autonomy of the Scottish-Irish tradition) that ended up weighing down Western Europe (as well as China's) ability to adjust to the free market system increasing global trade and industrial organization was leading to (The fact merchant, banking,ect. activities were so closely tied to Jews and Protestants didn't help,nor the enforcement of the Universal Tithe). Ended up allowing the Muslim and Protestant world to dominate in the second Age of Imperialism.
 
OOC: note ASB at all but pretty unlikely the OP has it. Medieval Catholic England was a pretty peripheral player and often at loggerheads with the Pope. I don't know how you get from one pre-Reformation English Pope to "most Popes" being English or Scottish. Despite what you have read in English language histories, Britain really became important becauset he industrial revolution happened there. And all Popes were Italian IOTL for over four centuries despite there being more important Catholic countries.
 
Without the famed Catholic Work Ethic, I can't imagine a small island off the coast of Europe developing the sort of maritime supremacy needed for OTL's British Empire.
 
Without the famed Catholic Work Ethic, I can't imagine a small island off the coast of Europe developing the sort of maritime supremacy needed for OTL's British Empire.

I can, easy. The brute force approach of "work harder, work longer" may work great for turning out raw numbers of hulls and scraping together naval stores, and made the Royal Navy sailors particularly willing to accept the lash and deal with rough conditions at sea (thus increasing their endurance), but its hardly the most resource-efficent way of doing things. There's a reason why Britain was so eager to gobble up a quarter of the earth's surface and focused so heavily on North America and Southern Africa: poor stewardship of resources meant they would clear-cut their sources of timber and pitch in no time flat by falling behind on maitenance and taking such a risky approach with their naval tactics (Not to mention all that private piracy...). The "Waste not, want not" attitude that emerged from the make-do lifestyles of the Near East/Muslim World and Eastern Europe by nessecity and from the Jewish and Calvinast refugees, and the broader education of the populuace into commerical crafts by allowing a proper free charter and non-church regulated guild system would do wonders for increasing might have allowed them enough of a boost in efficency to allow them to still expand even if its at the cost of immediate output... though I suppose it would take away some of the motivation to push into marginal territories. Expansion inland into Columbia and Edenshire (US and Canada) would certainly be delayed.
 
The British Empire at its peak was one of the largest empires ever, ruling about 25% of the Earth's surface. It profited from the Industrial Revolution which began in South England's Catholic heartland, and the English language, legal system, and Roman Catholic dioceses spread across the world as the British empire did.

(OOC - this seems too close to OTL. An England that does not become Protestant changes a ton of European history. There is no Glorious Revolution ITTL, for example.)
 
The British Empire at its peak was one of the largest empires ever, ruling about 25% of the Earth's surface. It profited from the Industrial Revolution which began in South England's Catholic heartland, and the English language, legal system, and Roman Catholic dioceses spread across the world as the British empire did. It was the largest Roman Catholic empire in history, often more loyal to the Popes than France was. After around 1600 a substantial percentage of Popes were English and Scottish.

It's hard to imagine a British Empire that wasn't Catholic. As many historians suggest, the British Empire was only possible due to the foundations laid by the "multinational Catholic leagues" of middle ages and early modern Europe. England was the last country to receive a "blank cheque" from the Pope for substantial conquests across the globe, a revision of the earlier Treaty of Tordesillas. Punitive wars against developed but sparsely populated Protestant states, such as the Swedish Empire and Crown of Prussia, were crucial for the territorial expansion of the British kingdoms and later empire.

Is a Protestant British Empire something that is even possible? How? And how would it have developed?
Maybe the Babington plot ist discovered instead of Maria Stuart sitting of the throne while Elisabeth Had been dethroned. The Re- Catholisation OTL had been rather nasty. A wonder that Britain recovered from it. Especially the British Inquisition modeled after the Spanish was famous for it's spy network.
 
Why would he? The dude was fanatically catholic. He personally penned tracts against major Protestant thinkers, and was the first English King to be given the title Defensor Fidei by the Pope.

I do think that the most obvious consequence would be the lack of the Franco-English Alliance that OTL managed to break the stranglehold of Hapsburg dominance--though the conversion of Austria to Protestantism also helped in that regard. Although it seemed unlikely given the old animosity of the 100YW, the accords forged on the Field of the Cloth of Gold represented a great leap forwards in the politics of Europe, with the at least nominal commitment to pacifism encouraged by Cardinal Wolsey resulting in the so-called "Cardinals' Peace" for almost 200 years under the de facto leadership of Wosley, Richelieu, Cromwell, Mazarin, and their ilk, interrupted only by brief interventions in Germany.

After the English inheritance of the Scottish throne from the childless Mary, furthermore, many Scottish Calvinists fled to Poland, providing the King's Party the military edge needed to defeat the Confederation of Lwow. As we all know, the nationalization of church lands and the breaking of the nobility's power during the Polish Reformation enabled the Union of Poland and Lithuania to become a major world power, particularly after it annexed the Muscovite Tsardom, though it later became the People's Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania-Ruthenia under the 20th century Communist regime. Who knows? Perhaps the division of the world into the "free", Catholic West and Communist, largely Protestant East would not be present ITTL...
Idk about no Anglo-French alliance. If protestantism was strong enough to take England, it may well take France too
 
The irony might be that the Irish adopt Catholicism here instead of becoming Protestants.

A lot of why the Irish became Protestants has less to do with faith and more to do with nationalism. You'd end up with a similar situation only in reverse. I imagine Belfast would still be as divided as in our history.
 
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