DBWI: President Kennedy WAS Assassinated?

Who could forget that situation in Dallas where that crazy bastard Lee Harvey Oswald opened fire upon John F. Kennedy's motorcade? We almost lost a president that day!!

But I can't help but wonder... what would've happened had Oswald's aim been a bit better? How would the situation with them dirty commies have changed? How would PRESIDENT Lyndon B. Johnson handle things? How would this have affected JFK's brothers and THEIR presidential bids? Makes one wonder doesn't it?

Because we're near the end of JFK Jr's 2nd term right now... coming after an almost successive line of Kennedy Presidencies. Not to mention the Soviet Union's STILL lingering over there in Europe, despite some rumors it's on it's last knees. So I'm interested... what do you think would've happened had JFK been assassinated?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Chances are we would still have had Bobby Kennedy as a President. Not only would he have the support he did IOTL, but he would have been aided by a substantial sympathy vote on account of his older brother being assassinated.

But when would it have been. Johnson would have run for reelection in 1964 and probably won, then perhaps run for a second full term in 1968. So it might have been 1972 before Bobby Kennedy got to run.

And I think you're being a bit hard on the possibilities of a Johnson presidency. While not as inspiring as either Kennedys, he was vastly better at dealing with Congress. It may be that a of the civil rights reforms and educational reforms the Kennedys only talked about could actually have gotten passed by a Johnson administration.
 
Two decades of Kenned has been more than enough. Vietnam was and is bad enough, but blaming Castro for the attempt as a pretext to invade Cuba was disgraceful. A family feud has no place in the White House, so I'll be glad to see the back end of the last Kennedy. Maybe then the government will actually start listing the final casuality figures for both wars.
 
With ennedy's assassination in 1963, Americans wouldn't have been visited with the threat of the creation of the "War Against Terror". Currently, Americans are being told that we must stop the "Moscow-Beijing Axis" in Cuba, Vietnam, and possibly in Czechoslovakia. After the questionable links between Lee Harvey Oswald and the Soviets were made public, America has been driven to "strike back" no matter what the cost will be. Between Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, both candidates are determined to show that they will support any war effort that the Democratic White House will launch, between now and November.

Is it any wonder that Martin Luther King Jr. and Benjamin Spock have voiced their vocal opposition to this "War on Terror"? With revelations of the domestic wire-tapping of the COINTELPRO program under J.Edgar Hoover and the secret reports by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, shouldn't America deserve better?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Is it any wonder that Martin Luther King Jr. and Benjamin Spock have voiced their vocal opposition to this "War on Terror"? With revelations of the domestic wire-tapping of the COINTELPRO program under J.Edgar Hoover and the secret reports by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, shouldn't America deserve better?

Speaking of Martin Luther King, do you think the Civil Rights Act of 1974 would have passed had Kennedy been assassinated?
 
Speaking of Martin Luther King, do you think the Civil Rights Act of 1974 would have passed had Kennedy been assassinated?
The problem with this assessment is that it ignores the fact that it was members of the Democratic Party that blocked passage of vital civil rights legislation. One need only look at the violence at the 1964 and 1968 Democratic conventions to show that civil rights has been a major "wedge issue" in the elections. Also consider that the Civil Rights Act of 1974 took place after the death of Jesse Louis Jackson in Greenville, South Carolina. The national outrage that occurred was one of hte reasons that teh legislation passed so easily...

OOC: Jesse Jacksopn should be seen as a Steven Biko character int he ATL...
 
Speaking of Martin Luther King, do you think the Civil Rights Act of 1974 would have passed had Kennedy been assassinated?

There would have been a sympathy factor that would have made anything Johnson tried to pass that JFK was known to have supported politically impossible to oppose. So, it would have passed in 1964.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
There would have been a sympathy factor that would have made anything Johnson tried to pass that JFK was known to have supported politically impossible to oppose. So, it would have passed in 1964.

THAT early?! Get real.
 
Speaking of sympathy factors, I think we overplay Johnson's standing by suggesting he'd succeed in getting the nomination in '68. Bobby Kennedy could easily have made his play that early, and an earlier Bobby Kennedy could see us landing on the Moon by 1969. (maybe a few months earlier, even)

Of course, its difficult to say wether Kennedy's Challenge would have been remembered or as played up as much had he been assassinated. A Soviet Moonlanding is plausible. Although given it took them untill 1972 to even try, I think we can safely say that even JFK's death wouldn't derail Apollo.
 
Speaking of sympathy factors, I think we overplay Johnson's standing by suggesting he'd succeed in getting the nomination in '68. Bobby Kennedy could easily have made his play that early, and an earlier Bobby Kennedy could see us landing on the Moon by 1969. (maybe a few months earlier, even)

Of course, its difficult to say wether Kennedy's Challenge would have been remembered or as played up as much had he been assassinated. A Soviet Moonlanding is plausible. Although given it took them untill 1972 to even try, I think we can safely say that even JFK's death wouldn't derail Apollo.
I'm not so sure about that. Just consider the disastrous consequences of the Kennedy and Johnson sex scandals. Both were looking at impeachment chages in 1966 after the revelations by J. Edgar Hoover and Senator Spiro Agnew (R-NY). There were even allegations that Hoover's people had files on the death of Marilyn Monroe in the waiting. If it wasn't for the Tonkin Gulf Incident and the successes in the War in Cuba, both Johnson and Kennedy would have been out of office in 1967. Johnson had massive political baggage for himself, just mention "Fiddle Faddle" (OOC: sexual nickname of the cheerleader prostitute that Johnson was fond of...)
 
I'm not so sure about that. Just consider the disastrous consequences of the Kennedy and Johnson sex scandals. Both were looking at impeachment chages in 1966 after the revelations by J. Edgar Hoover and Senator Spiro Agnew (R-NY). There were even allegations that Hoover's people had files on the death of Marilyn Monroe in the waiting. If it wasn't for the Tonkin Gulf Incident and the successes in the War in Cuba, both Johnson and Kennedy would have been out of office in 1967. Johnson had massive political baggage for himself, just mention "Fiddle Faddle" (OOC: sexual nickname of the cheerleader prostitute that Johnson was fond of...)

Oh come on!!! That was just some "vast right-wing conspiracy" to take them both down!!! JFK and Marilyn Monroe were just FRIENDS!!! So the bimbo sang at his birthday, and so they hung out together for years, WOW. Didn't mean anything!!!

OOC: *wink wink, nudge nudge* :p
 
Oh come on!!! That was just some "vast right-wing conspiracy" to take them both down!!! JFK and Marilyn Monroe were just FRIENDS!!! So the bimbo sang at his birthday, and so they hung out together for years, WOW. Didn't mean anything!!!

OOC: *wink wink, nudge nudge* :p
It can hardly be a right-wing conspiracy when you have Frank Sinatra and the President's brother-in-law Roberet Sargent Shrver testifying before the U.S. Congress, confirming the reports by J. Edgar Hoover. President Kennedy and Vice-President Johnson were guilty of "contempt of Congress" and "lying under oath". Either charge should have been enough to have them impeached from office.

But with America celebrating its victories in Cuba and Vietnam, most people are afraid to challenge the Kennedy Dynasty. This makes me ashamed to be an American....
 
Ok, lets accept for a moment that JFK's death spawns a huge right-wing backlash, with Johnston taking a Nosedive in '67. Wouldn't that make it MORE ideal for Robert Kennedy to emerge, as a sort of "purer" Phoenix emerging as a spotless contender? I doubt the Right-wing would have had the guts to launch their smear campaign on a dead man, afterall. And the "torch-carrying" factor being played up by Bobby would, i think, deflect attempts to try and smear him with "Fiddle Faddle" as it were.

Of course, it doesn't take much imagination to see how this sort of Underhandedness could backfire on the Right wing. Imagine, for instance, if during the Campaign season, the Republicans were caught red-handed planting sleaze in say, the Democratic Party Campaign Headquarters, or something of that nature.

To those skeptical of such an eventuality, I need not remind you of the sort of bullyboy tactics employed a mere decade earlier by McCarthy and his lot.


Although, aside from carrying on the same things Johnston and JFK were doing, I can't really see Bobby doing anything spectacular to distinguish himself, so a '72 Republican Victory is pretty assured. Although who would the Republicans field? Nixon wasn't getting any younger, and Goldwater's supporters seemed to melt into the backwoods.
 
I don't wan't any accusations of "right-wing conspiracy" but according to the interviews of J. Edgar Hoover by David Brinkley (ABC-TV), there is also evidence that suggests that Robert F. Kennedy was also involved in some sexual dalliances like his brother, only he was more discreet. My guess is that if Robert F. Kennedy were to run for the Democratic Party nomination, you would have Hoover and Republican presidential candidates Robert Dole (R-KS) or Ronald Regan (R-CA) spread the story of how the Kennedy brothers brought prostitutes into the White House....
 
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