DBWI: Pragmatist or Reformist China in 1980s

[Dolan]

Ah, yes. The Soviet-Iranian partition of Afghanistan, with Pakistan "revising" its border with them as well, leaving a protectorate based in Kandahar (Kabul is too close to the new border). The Pashtun Afghans hate their neighbors to no end.

Considering that US-European inaction against the Elder Hussein basically ended up with Iraq gobbling up Kuwait, while Elder Assad's Syria gobbling up Lebanon, and both agree to achieve co-dominium status to form Republic of Babylon at 2022, it was to be expected.

Iraq and Syria has been a very close allies ever since, especially after Qussay Hussein and Bashar Assad reaffirming their commitment to form united Babylon, apparently aimed at trolling BOTH more religious Muslim and Christian states by adopting Pagan symbolism alongside suppression of both Islam and Christian faith.

 

[Frank Hart]

Considering that US-European inaction against the Elder Hussein basically ended up with Iraq gobbling up Kuwait, while Elder Assad's Syria gobbling up Lebanon, and both agree to achieve co-dominium status to form Republic of Babylon at 2022, it was to be expected.

Iraq and Syria has been a very close allies ever since, especially after Qussay Hussein and Bashar Assad reaffirming their commitment to form united Babylon, apparently aimed at trolling BOTH more religious Muslim and Christian states by adopting Pagan symbolism alongside suppression of both Islam and Christian faith.

Lebanese people hate them so much, since they are the most Christian part of Arabia, and right now they are operating a government-in-exile in Bordeaux. Not so much with Kuwait, though the House of Sabah is displeased.

Besides, paganism in Syria and Iraq also led to a good part of Syrian / Iraqi Kurds and Iraqi Turkmen to adopt Zoroastrianism, and plans for a Kurdish-Turkmen autonomous region with its capital in Al-Hasakah or Kirkuk are being discussed. The Turkish government is pissed though.

 

[free115]

That Americans stopped caring about the Middle East mostly because the Energy Independence Initiative(EII) was successful. In addition to Venezuela being a stable democracy the Yanks really stop caring about Arabia. After the PRC collapsed, East Asia refugee crisis, and fear of missing nukes the global energy market got gutted.

The Commonwealth is more active in the region because a lot of its members states still use a lot of oil. The warmer relationship between Moscow and Washington has opened up Soviet oil and gas fields for EU and ASEAN use. London seriously alienated the continent when it just pulled out of the EU unilaterally.


OOC: Can I just that I just love how a collapsed PRC led to such a wonky world where a minor pagan resurgence. Joking aside though a pagan resurgence in the mid east would make the region even bloodier.

 

[Sigfried]

OOC: For some reason this seems relevant now

https://globalnews.ca/news/6038415/hexo/

 

[Frank Hart]

The Commonwealth is more active in the region because a lot of its members states still use a lot of oil. The warmer relationship between Moscow and Washington has opened up Soviet oil and gas fields for EU and ASEAN use. London seriously alienated the continent when it just pulled out of the EU unilaterally.

Jokes on them and their 2005 Brexit move. And when the UK left, there were fears of a domino effect in the EU. Fortunately, only Ireland followed, mainly to ensure the Good Friday Agreement stands.

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

Jokes on them and their 2005 Brexit move. And when the UK left, there were fears of a domino effect in the EU. Fortunately, only Ireland followed, mainly to ensure the Good Friday Agreement stands.

And yet Britain/The Commonwealth still lead Europe by a long shot, bar France and West Germany, who even now aren't exactly great powers. Honestly though Britain was close to getting kicked out anyway since Prince William has been so active in politics since he came of age, acting as sort of a second prime minister for most of the commonwealth

 

[Dolan]

Prince William has been so active in politics since he came of age, acting as sort of a second prime minister for most of the commonwealth

Ah yes, there are rumors that his recent appointment as Governor-General of New Zealand is precisely because everyone tried to stop the Prince from meddling too much in politics at Western Hemisphere by having him settle down at the furthest place across the globe.

Many of his political activities and ambitions could be traced back to his mother, Princess Diana, who many dubbed as the real power behind him.

 

[Frank Hart]

Ah yes, there are rumors that his recent appointment as Governor-General of New Zealand is precisely because everyone tried to stop the Prince from meddling too much in politics at Western Hemisphere by having him settle down at the furthest place across the globe.

Many of his political activities and ambitions could be traced back to his mother, Princess Diana, who many dubbed as the real power behind him.

Well, it's not like Elizabeth II is powerless either. She just fired the Deputy President of South Africa for a racist statement he said with regards to the Federation of KwaZulu and Natalia.

It really shows that she still has the power to reassign top-tier officials in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada. She just generally chooses not to.

(OOC: The Federation of KwaZulu and Natalia is the full name of KwaZulu. The government avoids using the contraction of FKN for obvious reasons. It's borders include southern Transvaal, where Zulus live, but not territory held by Transkei / KwaXhosa)

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

Well, it's not like Elizabeth II is powerless either. She just fired the Deputy President of South Africa for a racist statement he said with regards to the Federation of KwaZulu and Natalia.

It really shows that she still has the power to reassign top-tier officials in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada. She just generally chooses not to.

(OOC: The Federation of KwaZulu and Natalia is the full name of KwaZulu. The government avoids using the contraction of FKN for obvious reasons. It's borders include southern Transvaal, where Zulus live, but not territory held by Transkei / KwaXhosa)

Honestly the most interesting effect of the 07 recession has to be the rise in monarchist thought. France has had both bonaparte and bourbon rallies, and Germany had a referendum on restoring the Kaiser (they lost by about 15%). Regardless on your thoughts on Kings, one can't deny this is probably the most fascinating point in history in a long, long time. Hell, the king of Spain, Filipe VI didn't even have to accept the constitution when he took the crown

 

[Dolan]

Germany had a referendum on restoring the Kaiser (they lost by about 15%).

It has been suggested that People of West Germany might be actually preferring the Wittelsbach instead of Hohenzollern. But yeah, the biggest monarchist group there actually favor Bavarian separatism, so...

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

It has been suggested that People of West Germany might be actually preferring the Wittelsbach instead of Hohenzollern. But yeah, the biggest monarchist group there actually favor Bavarian separatism, so...

Makes sense, the prussian dynasty wasn't very good for them in the end, and Bavaria has always been #3 out of the main leaders in Germany. Add in their Catholic majority and it seems to add up

 

[Frank Hart]

Honestly the most interesting effect of the 07 recession has to be the rise in monarchist thought. France has had both bonaparte and bourbon rallies, and Germany had a referendum on restoring the Kaiser (they lost by about 15%). Regardless on your thoughts on Kings, one can't deny this is probably the most fascinating point in history in a long, long time. Hell, the king of Spain, Filipe VI didn't even have to accept the constitution when he took the crown

Speaking of Spain, some are starting to believe that the nation might crumble.

Italy broke into three (Italy, Naples-Sicily, Veneto), the latter two of which became under the Soviet bloc.
Germany is still split in two, though they are better than in the 1970s.
The Soviet Union itself lost Lithuania and a part of Belarus (plus the rest of the Curonian Spit) in the Lithuanian Revolt.

These days, Galicia, Asturias, Basque Country, and the Catalan countries all wanted to secede from Spain, for reasons independent from socialism's expansion in Europe.

 

[Dolan]

These days, Galicia, Asturias, Basque Country, and the Catalan countries all wanted to secede from Spain, for reasons independent from socialism's expansion in Europe.

At least, Gorbachev's Transparency and Democratic reforms actually worked, thanks to his rigorous attempt to regenerate Soviet Leaderships with young and idealistic intellectuals.

Sure, it's kind of Bummer that Lithuania revolted, but Gorbachev's words to them about Lithuanian people will regret leaving Communism by themselves is now taken as half-truth, as Soviet Union has been now regarded as the most democratic and transparent government in the world, with fully working Social Safety program and healthcare, and while their political freedom is still somewhat limited (every party still need to adhere to basic principles of Marxism-Leninism), the Communist Party itself has been broken into three with Progressive, Internationalist, and "Socialist Conservative" branches competing with each others for the votes.

I think Reformist China would need to follow the Gorbachevian Reform plan, and started by admitting Mao's faults would be the great start.

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

At least, Gorbachev's Transparency and Democratic reforms actually worked, thanks to his rigorous attempt to regenerate Soviet Leaderships with young and idealistic intellectuals.

Sure, it's kind of Bummer that Lithuania revolted, but Gorbachev's words to them about Lithuanian people will regret leaving Communism by themselves is now taken as half-truth, as Soviet Union has been now regarded as the most democratic and transparent government in the world, with fully working Social Safety program and healthcare, and while their political freedom is still somewhat limited (every party still need to adhere to basic principles of Marxism-Leninism), the Communist Party itself has been broken into three with Progressive, Internationalist, and "Socialist Conservative" branches competing with each others for the votes.

I think Reformist China would need to follow the Gorbachevian Reform plan, and started by admitting Mao's faults would be the great start.

America is still widely considered more free, admittedly not the most democratic though, but yeah, any surviving polity in china needs to admit Mao wasn't a god. or even a particularly good revolutionary.

 

[Frank Hart]

At least, Gorbachev's Transparency and Democratic reforms actually worked, thanks to his rigorous attempt to regenerate Soviet Leaderships with young and idealistic intellectuals.

Sure, it's kind of Bummer that Lithuania revolted, but Gorbachev's words to them about Lithuanian people will regret leaving Communism by themselves is now taken as half-truth, as Soviet Union has been now regarded as the most democratic and transparent government in the world, with fully working Social Safety program and healthcare, and while their political freedom is still somewhat limited (every party still need to adhere to basic principles of Marxism-Leninism), the Communist Party itself has been broken into three with Progressive, Internationalist, and "Socialist Conservative" branches competing with each others for the votes.

I think Reformist China would need to follow the Gorbachevian Reform plan, and started by admitting Mao's faults would be the great start.

Lithuania is democratic though, with alternating left wing and right wing governments. Also, even after they revolted against the Soviets, the Lithuanian Communist Party was still standing strong in elections. There's also a Polish-Belarusian minority party that does consistently well in Vilnius, Grodno, and Lida.

Still, there is quite some Soviet nostalgia in the country, with some in the younger generation wanting to return to the Soviets.

 

[Frank Hart]

(Partly OOC, borders may be inaccurate at places)

Current situation in Eastern Asia:

Spoiler: Administrative divisions of Chinese successor states

Republic of Manchuria 滿州共和國
Capital: Harbin, Hejiang 合江 哈爾濱
1. Heilongjiang 黑龍江 (capital: Heihe 黑河)
2. Nenjiang 嫩江 (capital: Qiqihar 齊齊哈爾)
3. Hejiang 合江 (capital: Mudanjiang 牡丹江)
4. Liaobei 遼北 (capital: Changchun 長春)
5. Jilin 吉林 (capital: Jilin City 吉林市)
6. Rehe 熱河 (capital: Tongliao 通遼)
7. Liaoning 遼寧 (capital: Shenyang 瀋陽)

Huabei Free State 華北自由邦
Capital (1): Beijing 北京
2. Guanbei 關北 (capital: Chengde 承德)
3. Jidong 冀東 (capital: Tianjin 天津)
4. Hebei 河北 (capital: Shijiazhuang 石家莊)
5. Jiaozhou 膠洲 (capital: Jinan 濟南)
6. Shandong 山東 (capital: Jining 濟寧)
7. Huaibei 淮北 (capital: Suzhou 宿州)
8. Zhongyuan 中原 (capital: Zhengzhou 鄭州)
9. Henan 河南 (capital: Luoyang 洛陽)

Shanxi Federation 山西聯邦
Capital: Taiyuan 太原
1. Suiyuan 綏遠 (capital: Hohhot 呼和浩特)
2. Jinzhong 晉中 (capital: Taiyuan 太原)
3. Nanzhao 南趙 (capital: Handan 邯鄲)
4. Qinbei 秦北 (capital: Datong 大同)

Republic of Qin 大秦民國
Capital: Lanzhou 蘭州
1. Shaanxi 陝西 (capital: Xi'an 西安)
2. Shaanbei 陜北 (capital: Yan'an 延安)
3. Ningxia 寧夏 (capital: Yinchuan 銀川)
4. Longxi 隴西 (capital: Lanzhou 蘭州)
5. Gansu 甘肅 (capital: Jiuquan 酒泉)
Disputed area: Hami / East Turpan Region 哈密/東吐魯番地區 (administered by Gansu, Qin; claimed by Dzungaria, East Turkestan)

State of Szechuan 四川國
Capital: Ziyang, Chuannan 川南 資陽
1. Chuandong 川東 (capital: Chongqing 重慶)
2. Chuannan 川南 (capital: Luzhou 瀘州)
3. Xikang 西康 (capital: Xichang 西昌)
4. Chuanxi 川西 (capital: Chengdu 成都)
5. Chuanbei 川北 (capital: Nanchung 南充)
6. Qinling 秦嶺 (capital: Yichang 宜昌)

Lower Yangtze Republic 長三角共和國
Capital: Nanking, Kingsze 京師 南京
1. Kiangsu 江蘇 (capital: Nantong 南通)
2. Anhwei 安徽 (capital: Hefei 合肥)
3. Wannan 晥南 (capital: Huangshan 黃山)
4. Chekiang 浙江 (capital: Hangzhou 杭州)
5. Kiangnan 江南 (capital: Suzhou 蘇州)
6. Kingsze 京師 (capital: Zhenjiang 鎮江)

Republic of China 中華民國
Capital: Amoy, Hokkian 福建 廈門
1. Kiangsi 江西 (capital: Nanchang 南昌)
2. Hokkian 福建 (capital: Foochow 福州)
3. Taiwan 臺灣 (capital: Taipei 臺北)

Republic of Canton 廣府共和國
Capital: Hong Kong, Canton Proper 廣東 香港 (sui generis Commonwealth Realm)
1. Gvangjsih 廣西 (capital: Hozciz 河池)
2. Kwainam 桂南 (capital: Namning 南寧)
3. Canton Proper 廣東 (capital: Canton City 廣州)
4. Hakka 客家 (capital: Siukwan 韶關)
5. Teoswa 潮汕 (capital: Kekyeoh 揭陽)
6. Hainan 海南 (capital: Hoihow 海口)

Huguang Democratic Republic 湖廣民主共和國
Capital: Changde, Hunan 湖南 常德
1. Hunan 湖南 (Capital: Changsha 長沙)
2. Hubei 湖北 (Capital: Wuhan 武漢)

Yunnan-Kweichow Confederation 滇黔邦聯
Capital: Bijie, Kweichow 貴州 畢節
1. Tujia 土家 (Capital: Enshi 恩施)
2. Kweichow 貴州 (Capital: Guiyang 貴陽)
3. Yunnan 雲南 (Capital: Kunming 昆明)
4. Dianbian 滇邊 (Capital: Baoshan 保山)

Islamic People's Republic of East Turkestan 東突厥斯坦伊斯蘭人民共和國
Capital: Ürümqi 烏魯木齊
1. West Tarim 西塔里木 (Capital: Hotan 和田)
2. East Tarim 東塔里木 (Capital: Korla 庫爾勒)
3. Dzungaria 準噶爾 (Capital: Ürümqi 烏魯木齊)
4. Altai 阿勒泰 (Capital: Karamay 克拉瑪依)

 

[Frank Hart]

At least, Gorbachev's Transparency and Democratic reforms actually worked, thanks to his rigorous attempt to regenerate Soviet Leaderships with young and idealistic intellectuals.

You also have to thank Andrei Gromyko for that. He was the one who opened the Soviet Union up to the world in 1988, allowing the Soviet Ruble to become among the most circulated currencies globally by 2007 (fourth most, after the United States Dollar, the Japanese Yen, and the British Pound, and ahead of the West German Mark and revalued Korean Won).

Fun fact: In 1989, before the ruble went global, and before Korea intervened in the Chinese Civil War, the Soviet Union sold twenty obsolete submarines and warships to PepsiCo in exchange for their soda. Given the volatile global situation then, that company's bigwigs chose to build a small navy out of the junk they got, and made eight subs, a frigate, and a destroyer, selling the equivalent of only four subs for scrap.
Nowadays they are known as the company with a navy, with a reputation that scared the Somali pirates. Pepsi itself is known as the "Drink of the High Seas".

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

Welp, Brazil's officially gone off the deep end. After a crazy tight referendum on the restoration of the empire under Pedro III (ultimately ending in 'no' in like a 50.1/49.9), there's violent uprisings in protest. Most of the south except Rio went for 'yes,' and now they're threatening civil war... and after Brazil's industrialization programs in the early 70s robbed the US sphere of the southern continent, i'm willing to bet the uprising has our hand in it. Add in that Angola was holding a vote on raising Pedro themselves and... yeah

 

[Frank Hart]

Welp, Brazil's officially gone off the deep end. After a crazy tight referendum on the restoration of the empire under Pedro III (ultimately ending in 'no' in like a 50.1/49.9), there's violent uprisings in protest. Most of the south except Rio went for 'yes,' and now they're threatening civil war... and after Brazil's industrialization programs in the early 70s robbed the US sphere of the southern continent, i'm willing to bet the uprising has our hand in it. Add in that Angola was holding a vote on raising Pedro themselves and... yeah

I mean, southern Brazil has always been a monarchist foothold, so yeah. This can't end well. Brazil is since 1985 the sole Great Power in South America. I just hope it doesn't go on the same path China did.

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

Welp, Brazilian Empire is back, and Angola's raised Pedro III themselves, but they've put up a new constitution and are actually building a new capital in the northeast. This will either blow up or go great.

Pedro has mentioned he has a claim to Portugal, who've expressed not being against it. Though considering how bad their economy has gotten, why would Pedro take it?