DBWI: No Sino-Soviet War

colonel

Donor
What if the USSR and PRC peacefully settle their border dispute or at least prevent it from turning hot in March 1969? If there are no nuclear exchanges between the two powers does it make the subsequent uses of A bombs in the 1970s and 1980s across Asia and the Middle East more or less likely?
 
China wouldn't be the unstable mess it is today. The war with the Soviets broke the back of the Maoist regime and triggered many of the current problems that plague the east Asia region.
 
As we know nomenklatura societies in even their most staid form of Brezhnevianism were speed addled monkeys with a belief in eternal recurrence of personality, no personal fear of mortality grounded in materialist atheism, and with a bureaucratic apparatus designed for sudden changes in course with no local frictive resistance. Basically the short lived Stalin societies would have needed to be grey jobs worth horrors illustrating the limits of the here and now with layer cake after layer cake of limit on command through inability to implement.
 
What if the USSR and PRC peacefully settle their border dispute or at least prevent it from turning hot in March 1969? If there are no nuclear exchanges between the two powers does it make the subsequent uses of A bombs in the 1970s and 1980s across Asia and the Middle East more or less likely?
No Soviet Civil War in the 90's.
 

colonel

Donor
Most Soviet experts were surprised their civil war never went nuclear. Would any of the seven nuclear exchanges in the 70s and 80s have been avoided had the Sino-Soviet War not made the unthinkable an option, or was it inevitable that the genie would escape from the bottle? Why has there been no use of nuclear weapons since 1981? I know the joint declaration coming out of Quebec City by the US, UK and France that any use of weapons of mass destruction by any entity anywhere would be taken as an Act of War against them, but I can’t believe no one since has tested their resolve.
 
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There would be thousands alive in Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the Philippines due to the deaths associated with cancer. China would probably have became a huge regional power by the 21st century. Now it's just a wasteland even worse than the 100 years humiliation.
 
There would be thousands alive in Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the Philippines due to the deaths associated with cancer. China would probably have became a huge regional power by the 21st century. Now it's just a wasteland even worse than the 100 years humiliation.
The full force of the Soviet arsenal did a number.
 

colonel

Donor
When you think the war started as a border dispute it is no small irony that it will be several more decades before anyone could safely live in the disputed region.
 
When you think the war started as a border dispute it is no small irony that it will be several more decades before anyone could safely live in the disputed region.
Well that's because of Mao's ego who would risk poisoning an entire continent over a "silly, little island" on the Ussuri.
 
Most Soviet experts were surprised their civil war never went nuclear. Would any of the seven nuclear exchanges in the 70s and 80s have been avoided had the Sino-Soviet War not made the unthinkable an option, or was it inevitable that the genie would escape from the bottle? Why has there been no use of nuclear weapons since 1987? I know the joint declaration coming out of Quebec City by the US, UK and France that any use of weapons of mass destruction by any entity anywhere would be taken as an Act of War against them, but I can’t believe no one since has tested their resolve.

Well China did show what would happen if you started a war with a superpower with a full nuclear arsenal, and to a certain extent Russia did as well. The USSR probably wouldn't have fallen in riots due to the problems caused by the war and Eastern Siberia would still be part of Russia instead of an abandoned wasteland that Russia let go its own way because there was almost nothing left of it. A few hundred thousand people , most of whom needed serious medical treatment, made it no longer worth the expense of keeping.
 
The kungfu craze during the 70s isnt as strong.

Remember a lot of the hong kong cenima was inspired by the horrific actions of the soviets during the war, and the nuking of so many cities created a lot of sympathy for chinese people. During the 80s a lot of those stars went on to be big stars in the 80s movie scene. Kung fu wouldn't be nearly as big in the US with out that. Of course the flip side is that the chinese refugees wouldn't turned Washington and Oregon into red states and california into a battleground state.
 
Well China did show what would happen if you started a war with a superpower with a full nuclear arsenal, and to a certain extent Russia did as well. The USSR probably wouldn't have fallen in riots due to the problems caused by the war and Eastern Siberia would still be part of Russia instead of an abandoned wasteland that Russia let go its own way because there was almost nothing left of it. A few hundred thousand people , most of whom needed serious medical treatment, made it no longer worth the expense of keeping.
I don’t think it has entirely been abandoned. Still plenty of mines out there, though I hear that now they just move the forced laborers there during the summer instead of keeping them there in the winter as well. To be honest though, I can’t help but feel they are there mostly to have som claim over the area until railroads can be built to some non-irradiated port. Or to get rid of the people. I obviously have no way of knowing, but I assume there are some bunkers built in the area to attack China with if the need ever arose or if they tried to claim to much land officially The last things they would want is for the Chinese to get their own airfields closer to Russian populated lands. Do we think Mongolia would still be around in this world with the Soviets and Chinese presumably burying the hatchet, perhaps with Mongolia going to China in exchange for the small areas the Soviets claimed for themselves? Though they would need to agree upon their entire border, so the Chinese didn’t also claim Uryankhay and everything up to Lake Balkhash as I saw in some books in college.
 

colonel

Donor
Well there may be people actually “living” in many of the irradiated regions of Asia, the former Soviet Union and the Middle East, but can you really call that living? Moscow is still occupied, but the destruction is such that the capital will never return from St. Petersburg (which would still be Leningrad but for the Soviet Civil War). Likely Taiwan would have been forced to give its seat on the UN Security Council were it not that Beijing is a pile of rubble, and are there now four governments claiming to be real government of all of China.
 
I don’t think it has entirely been abandoned. Still plenty of mines out there, though I hear that now they just move the forced laborers there during the summer instead of keeping them there in the winter as well. To be honest though, I can’t help but feel they are there mostly to have som claim over the area until railroads can be built to some non-irradiated port. Or to get rid of the people. I obviously have no way of knowing, but I assume there are some bunkers built in the area to attack China with if the need ever arose or if they tried to claim to much land officially The last things they would want is for the Chinese to get their own airfields closer to Russian populated lands. Do we think Mongolia would still be around in this world with the Soviets and Chinese presumably burying the hatchet, perhaps with Mongolia going to China in exchange for the small areas the Soviets claimed for themselves? Though they would need to agree upon their entire border, so the Chinese didn’t also claim Uryankhay and everything up to Lake Balkhash as I saw in some books in college.
Minimal at best. The government controls less there than the Japanese did in China during ww2. Not that I blame them, it is nothing but wasteland and Russia has its own problems.

Why would Russia worry about China at this point? About the only faction that could put up airfields and be a threat are the Nationalists as their core is by far the least damaged. About the only reason they haven't completely taken over at this point is that China is such a mess. The Communists are no longer a significant faction, Mao saw to that. The war shattered the countries faith in Communists as they caused the biggest disaster by far in Chinese history. You have the Buddhist Theocrats , you have the monarchists who are trying to figure out who has the best claim to the throne and the Shining Way which are basically a bunch of neo-fascists which seem to have taken elements from Fascist Italy and Fascist Spain.
 
Minimal at best. The government controls less there than the Japanese did in China during ww2. Not that I blame them, it is nothing but wasteland and Russia has its own problems.

Why would Russia worry about China at this point? About the only faction that could put up airfields and be a threat are the Nationalists as their core is by far the least damaged. About the only reason they haven't completely taken over at this point is that China is such a mess. The Communists are no longer a significant faction, Mao saw to that. The war shattered the countries faith in Communists as they caused the biggest disaster by far in Chinese history. You have the Buddhist Theocrats , you have the monarchists who are trying to figure out who has the best claim to the throne and the Shining Way which are basically a bunch of neo-fascists which seem to have taken elements from Fascist Italy and Fascist Spain.

The buddist theocrats are actually a lot more chill then you would think. pretty decent educational system, decent rights, and its the only place in china that allows gay marrage. Its not to 1st world status but its easily the second nicest place in china.
 
The buddist theocrats are actually a lot more chill then you would think. pretty decent educational system, decent rights, and its the only place in china that allows gay marrage. Its not to 1st world status but its easily the second nicest place in china.
I agree and I would say the worst of the lot is the Shining Way and by a large margin.
 
I guess we wouldn’t have spent most of our lives in these deep fallout shelters. Big as they are, I’d love to see the Upper World with my own eyes.
 
I guess we wouldn’t have spent most of our lives in these deep fallout shelters. Big as they are, I’d love to see the Upper World with my own eyes.

Jiangsu region?

Their really the only people with underground cities and internet capability these days.
 
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