DBWI: No separate Soviet-German Peace?

Stalin never trusted the west and the west was foolish to trust Stalin.

Following the German Victory at Kursk, Stalin opened up negotiations. Stalin demanded a return to the pre-invasion boundary, whereas the Germans wanted a border on the Dnieper.
Ultimately, a compromise was struck:
  • The border in Belarus was placed as it had been at the Peace of Riga
  • The Ukraine was divided along the Dnieper.
  • The Soviets would recognize the German occupation of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia but the Soviets were annex Estonia east of the Narva, Petseri, and Abrene.
  • The Soviets would get a free hand against Finland and the Germans would have their Norwegian puppets recognize Svalbard as Soviet.

The two sides also agreed to population and prisoner exchanges. Serbs, Poles, Jews, Roma, and Belarussians were to be sent to the USSR. Volga Germans to Fatherland. The Germans wanted to send the Ukrainians, but Stalin didn't want them, seeing them as traitors to the Motherland.

Stalin proceeded to conquer and annex Finland, conquer and make a puppet of Turkey, create a satellite state in North Iran, carve off Xinjiang into a Soviet Satellite, and lay the groundwork for Mao's takeover of China north of the Yangtze.

What if the Soviets and Germans hadn't cut a deal? Might the Allies, as a united front, have managed to defeat the Germans rather than get OTL's Stalemate?
 
Yes, but would have been bloody. Germans avoided a logistical nightmare in the Panther, and opted for the tested previous models, plus the Tiger for defense tasks. Imagine the horror of Allied tank crews going through the bocage, knowing AT guns and Panzers were everywhere. Hitler liked big, shiny tanks, but after Dr. Morell was booted, he seems to have become slightly more reasonable and open to advice.
 
Yes, but would have been bloody. Germans avoided a logistical nightmare in the Panther, and opted for the tested previous models, plus the Tiger for defense tasks. Imagine the horror of Allied tank crews going through the bocage, knowing AT guns and Panzers were everywhere. Hitler liked big, shiny tanks, but after Dr. Morell was booted, he seems to have become slightly more reasonable and open to advice.
Especially after the victory in Africa and the Middle East gave them plenty of oil
 
Maybe he's referring to a very upset Shah of Persia and the radicals in South Africa?
 
The allied victory? The Axis got swept out of Africa and the mideast prior to Kursk.
Sorry should have specified. I meant Diplomatic victories (Hitler being diplomatic Hah). Iran's new prime minister heavily favored the axis, and the German provoked arab revolts, while unsuccessful, still disrupted the allies.
 
What happens is that we are not forced to use nuclear weapons to end the war.

Because at that point there was no way the allies were not going to see the war end with anything less then total surrender.
 
Dunno how much difference it would've made, really. The stalemate was in part because of Hitler's assassination (Rommel used the disapproval of Hitler's diplomatic moved to his advantage) and the german civil war caused so many issues that the allies were able to just clear the nazis out of the areas they wanted. In all areas except central and eastern Europe it was an allied victory.

Hell, Germany still hasn't reunited; The nazi government ran back to their support base of bavaria and Austria, the eastern parts fell to communism because of the slavic majority, and the west became little more than a french colony because of its economic collapse
 
Dunno how much difference it would've made, really. The stalemate was in part because of Hitler's assassination (Rommel used the disapproval of Hitler's diplomatic moved to his advantage) and the german civil war caused so many issues that the allies were able to just clear the nazis out of the areas they wanted. In all areas except central and eastern Europe it was an allied victory.

Hell, Germany still hasn't reunited; The nazi government ran back to their support base of bavaria and Austria, the eastern parts fell to communism because of the slavic majority, and the west became little more than a french colony because of its economic collapse

Maybe if Munich, Nuremburg, Chevitz, Dresden, Stuttgart, and Berlin itself were intact we'd have had a different outcome. The redistribution of forces after the Bitter Peace ensured time for development of the V-101 rocket, Z5 and Z6 computer systems, T-43 and T-72 encryoption machines with honest-to-goodness one-time reads all but unbreakable by ULTRA, StG45(M)/StG46 assault rifles, and mass production of HeS-011 & BMW-018 jet engines as well as the Jumo 333 turboprop the Russians later copied verbatim for that 'Bear' bomber. The Dresden Firestorm of 1947 nearly resulted in Allied personnel being added to the Bremershaven Trials in 1949. Heck, it was *Doenitz* who ended up signing the surrender documents with Himmler, Goering, and Kammler disappearing!
 
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