DBWI: No North American Dominion

[vesica]

The Union of British North America is one of the most integral parts of the British Commonwealth even to this day, economically an even more important engine then the Dominion of India.

But there is popular thought that had the British Parliament not given their colonies representation in the Commonwealth's Parliament in London, and mostly take autonomy over most of their own internal matters, that an American Insurrection was inevitable.

I cant imagine a world without North American Prime Minister Benjamin Franklin or Alexander Hamilton; so my question is, is it possible that North America could have gotten their independence and what would the effect been on the British Empire and later Commonwealth as a whole

 

[wwbgdiaslt]

An independent America would have meant the Commonwealth Parliament (If it even existed) would have a vastly lower powered military force.

Would the "Living Room" War of 1939 against the German Empire have been over in a matter of months?

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

There has never been a successful Colonial independence war which hasn't dirrectly coincided with either civil war or invasion of the mother country.

Britain is too insulated against invasion, so that's right out.

Civil war though? I mean there was still a lingering Jacobite threat in the mid-late 1700s when things nearly came to a head over the Seven Years War debt. It's not entirely impossible that Britain guts itself in time for an angry American mob to proclaim their independence.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Other empires would want to spite Britain. King Louis XVI's first ten years are too busy fixing the bloody economy to take advantage of the crisis, but Spain might help, especially since it would leave North America without a consolidated force except for New Spain. Plus at this time they were eyeing up eating Portugal and Brazil, which would be great prizes for their help in this American Rebellion.

Who would lead it though? there was that George Washington fellow but he expressly denounced Thomas Paine's 'common sense,' since London had announced it's consolidation project. Thomas Jefferson had a habit of fantasizing about a 'farming nation from sea to shining sea,' that was doomed by the British industrialization programs started in the 1780s. He might do something wild, though he had no military experience.

 

[Kloka]

America will be free someday,Mark my words.

 

[Claudius]

America will be free someday,Mark my words.

Ah hah. One of those so-called "Sons of Liberty" radicals eh? Somebody notify the board mods.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Ah hah. One of those so-called "Sons of Liberty" radicals eh? Somebody notify the board mods.

eh it's legal enough, he's not threatening violence. though i find it funny that the so called 'liberators' are the ones who at their greatest peek, were tarring in feathering loyalists, which by definition meant anglicans. good job protecting religious freedom they did.

 

[Dolan]

Thomas Jefferson had a habit of fantasizing about a 'farming nation from sea to shining sea,' that was doomed by the British industrialization programs started in the 1780s. He might do something wild, though he had no military experience.

As much as his philosophical kookiness goes, Thomas Jefferson was credited for the invention of Cotton Gin in 1798, the thing that either help kick-starting American Cotton and Textile industry, or causing Slavery not being abolished until King Alfred's Edict of 1918 which forced all slaveholders in America to obey the manumission decree or have Redcoats forcibly free the slaves.

 

[AltoRegnant]

As much as his philosophical kookiness goes, Thomas Jefferson was credited for the invention of Cotton Gin in 1798, the thing that either help kick-starting American Cotton and Textile industry, or causing Slavery not being abolished until King Alfred's Edict of 1918 which forced all slaveholders in America to obey the manumission decree or have Redcoats forcibly free the slaves.

Honestly the dominions had basically abolished it, only virginia kept it that long, as everyone knew it was a dying practice. Alfred certainly helped though. But there might be something on the slavery thread. He's not too well known to most of the commonwealth, but Robert E Lee was an american general who really helped bring the Commonwealth a lot of victories in the Spanish Revolutionary period, but abolitionism was on the rise in his lifetime except for in the south and virginia again. He said once that if Virginia declared independence, he would help them and every colony that joined them.

If Queen Victoria had been a bit more aggressive in enforcing the abolition laws we might see a partly independent america... for twenty minutes before Britain showed up. Unless spain or france helped... what was Queen Eleanor of France like with slavery? I know that King Louis II in spain was an aggressive abolitionist who saw it only as a tool to punish violent heretics

 

[Dolan]

I know that King Louis II in spain was an aggressive abolitionist who saw it only as a tool to punish violent heretics

For all King Louis II's fault and brutal crackdowns against Protestants and Rebels, he did genuinely care for the well-being of the newly freed slaves, that they were being granted rights to open land and work as free farmers/ranchers that basically cemented Royal Rule in Dominion of New Spain and Gran Columbia.

Well, many would say that the Abolition was actually ruthless and pragmatic method to get an army of freedmen loyal only to The Spanish King to be used to quash anti-monarchy sentiments that was popular on the wealthy slave-owning class, but then, the South American "Guardia Negra" was also widely used worldwide to garrison every Spanish dominions except those in Africa.

 

[AltoRegnant]

For all King Louis II's fault and brutal crackdowns against Protestants and Rebels, he did genuinely care for the well-being of the newly freed slaves, that they were being granted rights to open land and work as free farmers/ranchers that basically cemented Royal Rule in Dominion of New Spain and Gran Columbia.

Well, many would say that the Abolition was actually ruthless and pragmatic method to get an army of freedmen loyal only to The Spanish King to be used to quash anti-monarchy sentiments that was popular on the wealthy slave-owning class, but then, the South American "Guardia Negra" was also widely used worldwide to garrison every Spanish dominions except those in Africa.

I mean being good for an asshole reason is better than being an asshole for good reasons. And wasn't he basically enforcing the law his predecessors set up, and mostly passing a blind eye on non-violent protestants?