DBWI: No Irish Home Rule??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Irish_Home_Rule_Bill

Would Ireland still be a part of the UK today if Gladstone had not pushed throught the Government of Ireland bill in 1886? How would the situation developed had Ireland remained without any form of devolution? Would trouble have developed?

Also, how would Parnell have reacted had he not achieved his position as the first Premier of the Irish Assembly, a position as we all know he held for a decade. I have a horrible feeling a civil war may have developed. What does everyone think? Would the current UK Prime Minister Bertie Ahern still be in office as Irish PM if Ireland did go independent?
 

archaeogeek

Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Irish_Home_Rule_Bill

Would Ireland still be a part of the UK today if Gladstone had not pushed throught the Government of Ireland bill in 1886? How would the situation developed had Ireland remained without any form of devolution? Would trouble have developed?

Also, how would Parnell have reacted had he not achieved his position as the first Premier of the Irish Assembly, a position as we all know he held for a decade. I have a horrible feeling a civil war may have developed. What does everyone think? Would the current UK Prime Minister Bertie Ahern still be in office as Irish PM?

No devolution would have made things worse, not better.
 
No devolution would have made things worse, not better.
Sure, its not as if there was a civil war or anything, but things were rough up until the 1920s or so. I mean of course in the long run you are right, who would have thought back then we would have an Irish Tory PM today sitting in Downing Street?

Do you think the revolt of '23 against the Irish executive would have been avoided? Would it have turned into a revolution with no Griffiths figure to calm things?
 
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Hey, I'm a Noob, Ican understand WI, OTL & ASB. For the rest it'll take me a couple of centuries to catch up.
:D I lifted this from Alt Hist wiki for you..

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Thread participants are expected to act in-character, as if coming from the ATL world. The sense of the thread is revealing the ATL world by discussing how the A-ATL (that is, OTL) might look. Generally it is considered bad form to predict OTL accurately - instead, participants should come up with well argued and reasonable, but totally inaccurate, assertions for what OTL should look like.

The phrase “DBWI” is sometimes used in a wider way to mean any sort of role-playing, including “Future Blind What If” to mean role-playing in a future setting. A contemporary use is expressed in Redem's celebrated The Many Nations of North America, aka “How did you live the war?”
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Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy is very fond of DBWIs, but his DBWI threads have a strange tendency to attract inexperienced members who fail to understand the concept, making him storm off in a huff.
Straha was infamous for hijacking DBWIs, and turning every DBWI-ATL into some post-nuclear exchange dystopia. Such is generally considered bad form.

Recently thecreeper has been responsible for a number of DBWIs that have either (i) degenerated into Ameriwank, and/or (ii) involved n00bs selectively discarding the details established in previous posts.

Recently, people have seen DBWI used in other contexts and affixed it to a normal WI because they don't understand its meaning. ASBBWI has also appeared as a superfluous label for a WI in the ASB forum. MrP was last seen screaming and calling for his shotgun, only to break down in tears when Torqumada reminded him that Britons cannot have guns.

Codae coined the terms “DB Discussion” (e.g. DB Discussion: Was King Louis XXIV good, or bad?) and “DB Chat” (e.g. DB Chat: Your thoughts on the Canadian presidential elections) to denote ATL threads from the Chat and Discussion forums, respectively.
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
Interesting but unlikely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Irish_Home_Rule_Bill

Would Ireland still be a part of the UK today if Gladstone had not pushed throught the Government of Ireland bill in 1886? How would the situation developed had Ireland remained without any form of devolution? Would trouble have developed?

Also, how would Parnell have reacted had he not achieved his position as the first Premier of the Irish Assembly, a position as we all know he held for a decade. I have a horrible feeling a civil war may have developed. What does everyone think? Would the current UK Prime Minister Bertie Ahern still be in office as Irish PM if Ireland did go independent?


In answer to the first part, I can only say yes. Home Rule was a liberal fallacy. Of course one recognizes that relations within and between the Home Islands have been fraught over the Centuries, with grave misdeeds on all sides.

However, the idea of 'Separatism' runs counter to everything we have seen in the years since the failed experiment.

There would doubtless have been some form of 'Irish' unrest, perhaps similiar to earlier abortive 'Fenian Risings' or agrarian disturbances. We should view that possibility in the context of the times though, not as some expression of 'Irish Exceptionalism'.

It seems quite likely that, had the Irish Parliamentary Party NOT secured Home Rule when they did, that Sir Charles Stuart Parnell would have continued his political career at Westminster.

Indeed it is not so absurd to suggest he may have become a permanent 'King-maker', holding the balance of power for at least as long as he held sway in Ireland.

Given the generally left-leaning Irish electorate, I think it unlikely that a politician of our Prime Ministers' ilk would have prospered in a still-independant Ireland. My personal opinion of Mr Ahern is that he is too much of a political animal to abandon the world stage London affords him to become a (doubtless) big fish in the small pond that a revived Dominion would be.

Not be too abrasive but I think such a proposal would verge on ASB.;)

Falkenburg.
 
As a knock-on effect, without the wave of Protestant Irish immigration to Canada in the aftermath of Irish Home Rule, the Canadian Orange Order would probably moderate it's views, wither away, and be incorporated into the existing political framework rather than undergoing a fundamentalist revival and becoming a political force in and of itself.

Without the Orange Order and it's political arm, Protestant Protective Association, Canada might very well be far more stable and far less radicalized going into WWI and might avoid the bloody revolts over conscription that occurred what with the PPA attacking the French for not supporting conscription, and the Bloc Canadien attacking the PPA for jamming it down their throats. Perhaps in TTL Canada manages to stay together and the whole Quebec Issue is somehow peacefully solved (okay that last part's a stretch I know, but this is ALTERNATE HISTORY!)

(OOC: In OTL the Orange Order was a major force in late 19th century Canadian politics and came very close to becoming a political force in and of itself. I don't think it would have taken much for things to turn out very differently and Irish home rule would certainly do such a thing IMO.)
 
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