DBWI: No Axis-German War of 1938

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Dolan

Banned
As you know it, Nazi Germany under Hitler tried to forcibly annex Austria in 1938, but then one accident after another turning what was supposed to be simple annexation into a war against the Rome-Budapest-Warsaw Axis.

It was one of the most hilarious moments of history, as Italian managed to basically thrust their way and occupying Bavaria, while Poland managed to take over most of Prussia. The Nazi regime ends up falling relatively quickly and the replacement junta sue for peace.

After this debacle, Germany ceased to be taken seriously as a Great Power ever again, and will soon dissolve into their previous constituent Kingdoms.

Now, what if the Axis-German war never happened? Let's say that different political negotiation resulting in the Fascist Countries being indifferent to German expansion, or even actually encourages it. What will happen next?
 
As you know it, Nazi Germany under Hitler tried to forcibly annex Austria in 1938, but then one accident after another turning what was supposed to be simple annexation into a war against the Rome-Budapest-Warsaw Axis.

It was one of the most hilarious moments of history, as Italian managed to basically thrust their way and occupying Bavaria, while Poland managed to take over most of Prussia. The Nazi regime ends up falling relatively quickly and the replacement junta sue for peace.

After this debacle, Germany ceased to be taken seriously as a Great Power ever again, and will soon dissolve into their previous constituent Kingdoms.

Now, what if the Axis-German war never happened? Let's say that different political negotiation resulting in the Fascist Countries being indifferent to German expansion, or even actually encourages it. What will happen next?
Well Czechoslovakia greatly gained by this as Poland and Hungary were distracted. Czechoslovakia was also supplying weapons to Poland and partially to Hungary. By this they got rid of some older weapon systems and used resources gained by this to modernize their military. With threat of Germany gone and with fortification finished Czechoslovakia was more then able to handle possible act of agression. Without Axis German war there was threat of Czechoslovakia being partiined.
 
Well Czechoslovakia greatly gained by this as Poland and Hungary were distracted. Czechoslovakia was also supplying weapons to Poland and partially to Hungary. By this they got rid of some older weapon systems and used resources gained by this to modernize their military. With threat of Germany gone and with fortification finished Czechoslovakia was more then able to handle possible act of agression. Without Axis German war there was threat of Czechoslovakia being partiined.

I question weather or not that's a good thing. Czechoslovikia was an unnatural Frankenstein's monster state in which Czechs (basically the only group with any political power) made up and still do barely over a quarter of the population in an age where we'd just decided nation-statex were a smart idea. Versailles REALLY did need some rectifications; the German Right had a solid point there, and all the Nazis were doing was backing the principal for self-determination for the German speaking people's... sadly the Fascists in Budapest, Warsaw, and Rome said "Rights for me but not for thee!" and kept Eastern Europe a series of tin-pot multinational dictatorship-by-MY-group regeimes.
 
I question weather or not that's a good thing. Czechoslovikia was an unnatural Frankenstein's monster state in which Czechs (basically the only group with any political power) made up and still do barely over a quarter of the population in an age where we'd just decided nation-statex were a smart idea. Versailles REALLY did need some rectifications; the German Right had a solid point there, and all the Nazis were doing was backing the principal for self-determination for the German speaking people's... sadly the Fascists in Budapest, Warsaw, and Rome said "Rights for me but not for thee!" and kept Eastern Europe a series of tin-pot multinational dictatorship-by-MY-group regeimes.
Poland is same Frankenstein though.
 
Poland is same Frankenstein though.

Which is kind of my point: Italy, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria... all the members of the Fasces Europa were basically later-day Habsburg Empires where he hegemonic ethnic group stomped their minorities underfoot, getting away with it because heaven forbid somebody stand up for the Croats, Serbs, Slovaks, Tyrolians/Suddenlanders/West Prussians, Albanians, Transylvanians, Libyan Arabs... need I go on? Germans ruling over Germans when said Germans want it? Heavens no, can't allow that! Albanian indendence swept out from under them and Somalis and Libyans getting killed or forced to marry Italian settlers? Well, they're just Muslims. A state for Serbs? Bah! Let's just get rid of that. The German brand of Nationalism haden't asked for anything more than "Germans should be allowed to be one nation", which meshed perfectly with the ideas supposedly espoused by the Western Democracies, which I'd argue in the long run would have kept Europe far more stable than the Imperialist Fascism practiced by the Italian school.
 
Germany annexes Austria, prompting a response from the Soviets to try to protect ethnic Slavs in Serbia. The Western powers(France, Britain, etc), all more afraid of Communism than of fascism, join the Nazis in their crusade against the Soviet Union. The United States, however, elects to remain neutral. The Soviet Union crumbles under the combined weight of the rest of Europe and balkanises. The Western powers, quickly realising their mistake, turn on their German allies immediately following the Soviet collapse, and quickly destroy the Germans, who had been weakened after taking the brunt of the Soviet attacks. Italy remains neutral, taking what land it can it North Africa and staying out of European affairs.
 
Germany was remilitarizing, in two or three years the Axis would not have been able to stop them. A larger war would have happened involving France, England and the Soviet Union. Germany wouldn't have one that, it's one of them lasted longer with a want more deaths I'm talking about potentially more than the Great War.
 
Fascist states were good to say "Yeah, we're nationalists too but at least we didn't try to submit Europe" to get tolerance from Western Powers while asking tough misures against Germans.
If the Fascists states will not go in war for Austria, it could happen for Czechoslovakia or Poland.
But if they will be totally indifferent or friendly with Nazi regime Hitler could try to accomplish his crazy plans to expansion and extermination of Jews and Slavic people. So war with Soviet Union seems probable, but Moscow was stronger then a nation able to be defeated by a polish-hungarian-Italian coalition. In this TL Stalin defeats Hitler and imposes communism in Central Europe: Western Powers and Fascist Alliance make a deal to save the day and start a Cold War with Moscow.
OTL the Cold War between the Rome Pact (Italian Empire, Intermarium Federation, Bavaria, United Kingdom of Austria and Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro, Spain, Portugal) and the New Entente (France, United Kingdom, German States, Serbia, Greece, Turkey, Romania), started after Fermi gave Benny the Bomb, was a bloody proxy war that finished in the 1970s when Fascist regime collapsed due long colonial wars and economic costs of rearmament against the Entente.
Soviet Union had more resources and an less problematic ideology with colonies people so it could last longer (and maybe win?).
 
Which is kind of my point: Italy, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria... all the members of the Fasces Europa were basically later-day Habsburg Empires where he hegemonic ethnic group stomped their minorities underfoot, getting away with it because heaven forbid somebody stand up for the Croats, Serbs, Slovaks, Tyrolians/Suddenlanders/West Prussians, Albanians, Transylvanians, Libyan Arabs... need I go on? Germans ruling over Germans when said Germans want it? Heavens no, can't allow that! Albanian indendence swept out from under them and Somalis and Libyans getting killed or forced to marry Italian settlers? Well, they're just Muslims. A state for Serbs? Bah! Let's just get rid of that. The German brand of Nationalism haden't asked for anything more than "Germans should be allowed to be one nation", which meshed perfectly with the ideas supposedly espoused by the Western Democracies, which I'd argue in the long run would have kept Europe far more stable than the Imperialist Fascism practiced by the Italian school.
Not only that, but let's not forget the hyper-racist Italian regimes in Libya and Ethiopia, which eventually built nukes for Rhodesia and the Union of South Africa. The survival of the Italian Empire turned out horribly for all the peoples of Africa. If Mussolini's regime didn't get a boost by being overlooked by the West for a decade and a half after the Axis-German war of 1938, maybe decolonization would have turned out more smoothly.
 
Fascist states were good to say "Yeah, we're nationalists too but at least we didn't try to submit Europe

Germany tried to submit Europe? Oh dear, they walked troops into their own lawn and tried to integrate a nation that overwhelmingly (even by outsiders hostile to German's admittance!)wanted to join them and was artificially being held hostage. The horror! And what do you call he dismantling of Yugoslavia (including many Serb majority areas), he forced annexation of Albania, ect. actions taken by those tyrants to conquer and suppress their opponents. You're basing this on mad assumptions of the fear mongering propaganda of what Germany MIGHT do in the future based on some things Hitler wrote while stuck in prison vs. the actual course of action demonstrated, which was just to give the German people the self-government denied to them at Versailles
 

Dolan

Banned
You're basing this on mad assumptions of the fear mongering propaganda of what Germany MIGHT do in the future based on some things Hitler wrote while stuck in prison vs. the actual course of action demonstrated, which was just to give the German people the self-government denied to them at Versailles
Tell that to the Polish Court who end up receiving Hitler and giving him trial based on his writings that Slavic People should be conquered and turned into slaves.

We all know that, on the record, Hitler end up went on tirade about how all Slavs are subhumans and how Germany should attack the Poles first before the "Jewish Fascist plot against German People" torn Germany apart.

It was such an undisguised hatred against the Poles, that Hitler end up executed by the Poles using the otherwise rarely used Medieval method, that is being dismembered by four horses.
 
Tell that to the Polish Court who end up receiving Hitler and giving him trial based on his writings that Slavic People should be conquered and turned into slaves.

We all know that, on the record, Hitler end up went on tirade about how all Slavs are subhumans and how Germany should attack the Poles first before the "Jewish Fascist plot against German People" torn Germany apart.

It was such an undisguised hatred against the Poles, that Hitler end up executed by the Poles using the otherwise rarely used Medieval method, that is being dismembered by four horses.

That bloody Kangaroo Court the Fascists set up for all it's political prisoners? Come on,don't make me laugh. They have DECADES of brutality following this up to show that a week in "special debreifing" can break a man to say whatever they want. And after the raw injustice heaped on the German people and the (verified by the 1975 Milan Leaks) attrocities committed on them during the war and the so-called "resettlement" program shoves on the Tyrolians, Suddentenlanders, Prussians,and German Silesians (strange how few actually ended up in Germany...) I'm not surprised the man devolved into screaming anger after his torture. Especially when you JUST proved his claim the enemies of the German people won't let them even take a step into their fair place in the sun without kicking them back into the home right by jumping in and ripping his nation apart just for implimenting the same self-determination by which Poland and Czechslovakia even existed! Especially by being so demonstrably barbaric in the execution... you couldn't have made a better vindicated martyer if you tried.
 

Dolan

Banned
the so-called "resettlement" program shoves on the Tyrolians, Suddentenlanders, Prussians,and German Silesians (strange how few actually ended up in Germany...)

Well, of course most of them won't end up in Germany because Germany end up being dissolved permanently in 1941.

They of course, end up in one of the German successor-states, so they either moved to Bavaria, Saxe-Corbug Gotha, Saxony, Wittenberg, or Prussia. Yes, the borders did get adjusted Poland and Italy getting advantageous territories, but they do give France, Netherlands, and Belgium their share of favorable adjustments too.

Yes, there are people now who thought that breakup of Germany should be called as "German Genocide", but that was only a measure to ensure that the Great War will never ever happened again because of united Germany.
 
Well, of course most of them won't end up in Germany because Germany end up being dissolved permanently in 1941.

They of course, end up in one of the German successor-states, so they either moved to Bavaria, Saxe-Corbug Gotha, Saxony, Wittenberg, or Prussia. Yes, the borders did get adjusted Poland and Italy getting advantageous territories, but they do give France, Netherlands, and Belgium their share of favorable adjustments too.

Yes, there are people now who thought that breakup of Germany should be called as "German Genocide", but that was only a measure to ensure that the Great War will never ever happened again because of united Germany.

God, listen to you. Talking so callously about all this. If I were to say the same about Poles and Poland, or Czechs and Czechoslovakia, you'd scream bloody murder even though they actually demonstrated ethnic purging tendencies, but when Germans even whisper maybe its OK for them to have a little say in the world and decide what nation the areas they are a clear majority in ought to be pat of they're EVIL and must be suppressed in a bloody mess. That's sick.
 

Dolan

Banned
God, listen to you. Talking so callously about all this. If I were to say the same about Poles and Poland, or Czechs and Czechoslovakia, you'd scream bloody murder even though they actually demonstrated ethnic purging tendencies, but when Germans even whisper maybe its OK for them to have a little say in the world and decide what nation the areas they are a clear majority in ought to be pat of they're EVIL and must be suppressed in a bloody mess. That's sick.
And you would deny that Nazis actually planned to split Poland in two with Soviet Union. Even if it was later proven true after second Russian Civil War ousted Stalin and revealed his plan to split Europe with Germany.

Yes, our ancestors were indeed Jerks, but so does everyone else in this time period.
 
And you would deny that Nazis actually planned to split Poland in two with Soviet Union. Even if it was later proven true after second Russian Civil War ousted Stalin and revealed his plan to split Europe with Germany.

Yes, our ancestors were indeed Jerks, but so does everyone else in this time period.

What plans? Oh, he one STALIN drafted and the Germans hadn't even seen in 38'? And you honestly think the Nazi Party who put Communists on the top of their enemies list would have signed that agreement f the rest of the world had shown the slightest willingness to even discuss a mutually agreeable rectification of the mistakes made at Versailles. You're grasping at straws here to find the slightest justification for your Germanphobia and defend YOUR team no matter how atrocious it was. If you live in Poland, I feel sad for you. That tin-pot dictatorship can have its military parades and Potemkin Villages all it likes.

(Check your timing on the M-R Pact negotiations. You're about a year early my friend)
 
What plans? Oh, he one STALIN drafted and the Germans hadn't even seen in 38'? And you honestly think the Nazi Party who put Communists on the top of their enemies list would have signed that agreement f the rest of the world had shown the slightest willingness to even discuss a mutually agreeable rectification of the mistakes made at Versailles. You're grasping at straws here to find the slightest justification for your Germanphobia and defend YOUR team no matter how atrocious it was. If you live in Poland, I feel sad for you. That tin-pot dictatorship can have its military parades and Potemkin Villages all it likes.

(Check your timing on the M-R Pact negotiations. You're about a year early my friend)
Everyone should calm down before the mods get to this thread, YamatoBear has banned members who engage in these kinds of nationalist arguments about tiny Euro countries.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Everyone should calm down before the mods get to this thread, YamatoBear has banned members who engage in these kinds of nationalist arguments about tiny Euro countries.
Just because this is a Japanese Board doesn’t mean we can’t discuss matters outside of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
 

Dolan

Banned
Just because this is a Japanese Board doesn’t mean we can’t discuss matters outside of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Of course, the Japanese being arguably the nicest of the Great Powers, as well as Britain's most trusted ally definitely do the trick. They are all in for racial equality and proper representations of everyone, unlike the USA and their hypocritical racial segregation laws.

USA should stop fanning things about the "German Genocide" propaganda, as those are just as ridiculous as saying that Koreans and Manchurians wanted to be separate from their Japanese brothers. Also please stop supplying arms and ammunition to Irish and Indian terrorists that keep attacking British Empire at that.
 
Everyone should calm down before the mods get to this thread, YamatoBear has banned members who engage in these kinds of nationalist arguments about tiny Euro countries.

Just because this is a Japanese Board doesn’t mean we can’t discuss matters outside of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
'
Erm, what? Yes, this board may have been started by an American expat in Japan, but unless you're referring to the historic G.E.A.C.P.S. in it's native time period(though some fringe Japanese ultra-nationalists still wish it existed because they view the modern government as illegitimate, and they desperately want to bring back the old regime-of course, none of them live in Japan itself since the Revolutionaries took power in 1969; even the former Emperor Hirohito was not immune from prosecution and he died in prison in 1987, leaving his son Akihito as nothing more than a figurehead even prior to the permanent abolishment of the monarchy in 1989), let's not forget that IOTL, at least it fell apart in the late 1960s after the Pacific War(though the Hawa'iian Missile Crisis damn near went nuclear in Nov./Dec. 1966-thank goodness for the Samurai Clique standing up to the hardline nationalists or none of us might be here today!).

Of course, the Japanese being arguably the nicest of the Great Powers, as well as Britain's most trusted ally definitely do the trick. They are all in for racial equality and proper representations of everyone, unlike the USA and their hypocritical racial segregation laws.

USA should stop fanning things about the "German Genocide" propaganda, as those are just as ridiculous as saying that Koreans and Manchurians wanted to be separate from their Japanese brothers. Also please stop supplying arms and ammunition to Irish and Indian terrorists that keep attacking British Empire at that.

Yes, I know we had a bad history with segregation, but that ended in the mid-'60s, dude. And let's not forget, the Japanese committed a number of atrocities in China even before the Axis-German War broke out, and that didn't end until the Pacific War and the fall of the old Japanese regime.

OOC: Erm.....hate to break this to you, Dolan, but the U.S. keeping segregation until the present day(2019) is really, really implausible, TBH, short of maybe an extremely corrupt one-party-dominant situation and/or super-nationalist dictatorship successfully arising(which is, in itself, unlikely).
 
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