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DBWI: Kim Il Sung never declares a monarchy

As we all know, on January 5th, 1992, Kim Il Sung would declare himself God-King of North Korea(technically all Korea, but we all know the South never listened to him). This of course had some rather.... interesting effects as we know, Juche would be transformed into a full on religion, political instability would rock the country for the remainder of the decade, and most importantly, China would move in on March 19th, 1998 and annex the North Korean controlled portion of the Tumen River, effectively pushing North Korea away from China and back into Russia's sphere. What I'm curious about is, what if Sung never did this, how might the North be today, and what would its relations with China and the west be?
 
His death would have led to a civil war as potential successors vied for the top spot. Maybe not at once but like Yugoslavia after Tito died sooner or later it would all fall apart, and all the while China, Russia and of course South Korea are egging on the various factions hoping to get control of the North through puppets or in the case of South Korea by annexation.
 

ASUKIRIK

Banned
Truth to be told, King Jong Nam of the Kim Dynasty has been a pretty chill guy, and there were talks from 2018 to reunite Korea as a constitutional Monarchy (which actually hold some serious sway in South Korea), as the Kims were now seen as a wackier Pahlevi Dynasty. The 2000s Liberalization of economy also already worked in North Korea's favor and they are actually pretty close with the South, economy-wise.

The cult of Juche, however, is the prevailing problem that made the reunification being hard to discuss in the South, as basically everyone in North Korea right now belongs to such weird pseudo-communist religion with an uncomfortable level of similarities to common stereotypes about cults.
 
The cult of Juche, however, is the prevailing problem that made the reunification being hard to discuss in the South, as basically everyone in North Korea right now belongs to such weird pseudo-communist religion with an uncomfortable level of similarities to common stereotypes about cults.
Hm, while I know Juche tends to preach communistic ideas with a religious lens, I've never heard about it being described as having similarities to cult stereotypes.
 

Dolan

Banned
Hm, while I know Juche tends to preach communistic ideas with a religious lens, I've never heard about it being described as having similarities to cult stereotypes.
Well, of you could ignore the burning incenses and regular prayers to THE GOD-KING IL-SUNG, the First of The Kim Dynasty, Eternal watcher of Society and Vanguard of Justice... They were pretty much just Korean version of Communist-Mormons.

Chinese takeover of North Korean lands actually worked in the later's favor, somewhat, as the international communities condemned the dick move, and in turn, give the North Korea all the goodwill in the world, which contributed to the success of 2000s liberalization policies, as cheap North Korean labor and productivity made them the largest manufacturing hub in the World.

Their economic boost also ironically being supported by many South Korean Corporations, hence the talks of actually reuniting the two countries and keep the Kims as Constitutional and Religious Figureheads.
 
Well, of you could ignore the burning incenses and regular prayers to THE GOD-KING IL-SUNG, the First of The Kim Dynasty, Eternal watcher of Society and Vanguard of Justice... They were pretty much just Korean version of Communist-Mormons.

Chinese takeover of North Korean lands actually worked in the later's favor, somewhat, as the international communities condemned the dick move, and in turn, give the North Korea all the goodwill in the world, which contributed to the success of 2000s liberalization policies, as cheap North Korean labor and productivity made them the largest manufacturing hub in the World.

Their economic boost also ironically being supported by many South Korean Corporations, hence the talks of actually reuniting the two countries and keep the Kims as Constitutional and Religious Figureheads.
I don't know, I don't really see them as having the same role as say, Queen Elizabeth. Or as long lasting as her.
 
I don't know, I don't really see them as having the same role as say, Queen Elizabeth. Or as long lasting as her.
I don't know, the idea of the becoming figureheads would probably be for the best: Their egos get stroked, the more devout Juche followers won't get pissed, and the southerners can just ignore them without fear of repercussion.
 
I don't know, the idea of the becoming figureheads would probably be for the best: Their egos get stroked, the more devout Juche followers won't get pissed, and the southerners can just ignore them without fear of repercussion.
I guess. But still, I dunno. It's not impossible they could've stayed dictators, but they wouldn't have lasted as long, so I guess it makes some sense they'll stay on and on as monarchs.
 

Dolan

Banned
I don't know, I don't really see them as having the same role as say, Queen Elizabeth. Or as long lasting as her.
Considering that the Dynasty is essentially secured, with King Jong-Nam already have a heir in Prince Han-Sol, and Prince Jong-Un being the country's ambassador to the USA, the succession line is never a problem.

Yes, Prince Jong-Chul was pretty much the black sheep of the family when his grandfather and his father still alive, but King Jong-Nam apparently has no problem having a gay brother and it was often cited as the reason of why North Korea being the first Asian country to legitimize gay marriages and homosexual relationship. Which made the fundamentalists seethe at them but also why liberal progressive loves them.
 
OCC : This is ASB. Not only is monarchism against Communist doctrine, this will enrage China, North Korea’s lifeline. If this happens, either North Korea is forced to unify with South Korea (not implausible in this POD) or get abandoned by it’s only ally, leaving the Republic of Korea to unify the nation anyway.
 
OCC : This is ASB. Not only is monarchism against Communist doctrine, this will enrage China, North Korea’s lifeline. If this happens, either North Korea is forced to unify with South Korea (not implausible in this POD) or get abandoned by it’s only ally, leaving the Republic of Korea to unify the nation anyway.
OOC: I think everyone knows that, this thread is based on the suspension of disbelief on the matter (although the way the Kims are, I think even North Korea becoming a full-blown theocracy isn't that unlikely for them)
Well, of you could ignore the burning incenses and regular prayers to THE GOD-KING IL-SUNG, the First of The Kim Dynasty, Eternal watcher of Society and Vanguard of Justice... They were pretty much just Korean version of Communist-Mormons.

Chinese takeover of North Korean lands actually worked in the later's favor, somewhat, as the international communities condemned the dick move, and in turn, give the North Korea all the goodwill in the world, which contributed to the success of 2000s liberalization policies, as cheap North Korean labor and productivity made them the largest manufacturing hub in the World.

Their economic boost also ironically being supported by many South Korean Corporations, hence the talks of actually reuniting the two countries and keep the Kims as Constitutional and Religious Figureheads.
Maybe if China hadn't taken those lands and been made a pariah for some time her economy would be better than in OTL (not that it isn't well, but the bad rep really didn't help when North Korea started attracting multinationals)
 
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ASUKIRIK

Banned
Well, of you could ignore the burning incenses and regular prayers to THE GOD-KING IL-SUNG, the First of The Kim Dynasty, Eternal watcher of Society and Vanguard of Justice... They were pretty much just Korean version of Communist-Mormons.

And considering a whopping 75% of South Koreans self-identifying as Christians, but a very big portion of them belongs to weird Prophetic Churches like the Shinjeonji and other churches that would make the average Western Christians scratching their heads, the joke about Juche being communist Mormons are rather understandable.

Hell, the Korean stereotype nowadays is they usually following some weird cultic religion, with Juche being the obvious go-to-cult for the North Koreans, and various insane Christian Cults for the South Koreans. If they get into some sort of reunification, everyone already bets on some sort of weird merger between them.

Maybe if China hadn't taken those lands and been made a pariah for some time her economy would be better than in OTL (not that it isn't well, but the bad rep really didn't help when North Korea started attracting multinationals)

China has the potential to become a much larger version of North Korea, honestly, but invading and taking North Korean lands triggering a fresh set of Sanctions from the Clinton and later Gore administration.
 

Dolan

Banned
the joke about Juche being communist Mormons are rather understandable.
Thank God that The Orthodox Church has been making leaps and bounds in post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine, and Eastern Europe in terms of the surge of Adherences, and in areas which are historically Catholic, including Cuba, it's the Catholic Church who took the upswing of Religion. Fidel Castro being Re-Baptized by The Pope is pretty sobering sign about the End of Communism, honestly.

We now know that after for so long being forcibly separated from Religion, human psychology tends to return to The Faith to give them some sort of stability. The North Korean Juche being the most obvious example but Post-Soviet Churches are also pretty obvious effect of.

Not that the Chinese are exempt from this, even if they still paid lip service to Communism, they are nowadays starting to adhere more and more into some weird Taoist Tai Chi inspired pseudo-martial-art-slash-religion named Falun Dafa. Even if the officials denied that was a religion, merely a "Breathing and Kungfu Exercise", it has all the signs of post-Communist religious movement too.
 
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