DBWI Karolus become the leader of the Franks

Now that the wek of festivities of the coronation of Karlomann Magnus have ended, I decided to create (yes another) post of how his older brother would have ruled the frankish empire instead of him, could he have kept the frankish empire united under his bastard son Pepin after his death? Of course he probably would have more children if he lived longer, so the empire still probably would end splitting between his sons after his death as it happened in Karlomann magnus
 
Karloman (751-771) was the younger brother. His son Pippin wasn't a bastard (unlike Karl's Pippin 'the Hunchback'). I'm confused by your post.

- BNC
 
Well, Karl's seat of power was originally to the North. Maybe he would focus more of his attention upon the Saxons and the rest of Dutchland? Karloman's seat of power had always been further to the south in modern day Provence, and I think that may be while he spent so much time campaigning against the Lombards and into Hispania. Of course, if Karl was able to actually spread into Dutchland (probably at the expense of his brother's OTL conquests in Italy and Spain), this is going to have some major ramifications when the Norse show up on the stage and in the attempts to Christinize the North.
 
Karloman (751-771) was the younger brother. His son Pippin wasn't a bastard (unlike Karl's Pippin 'the Hunchback'). I'm confused by your post.

- BNC

I'm confused where you got those dates from. It was Karl who died around 771 (772 to be exact, I think.) and Karloman lived until 810.
 
So, thought I would give this a good stab:

We know that Karl's base of support was in the old Frankish territories to the north and the west. Might this mean that, if he inherits the whole kingdom, that he might become more heavily involved with the Saxons then his brother did in OTL? After all, Karloman's base of support was in modern day Aquitaine and some people credit that with his more southernly focus in OTL. Now, if Karl gets involved in conquering Saxony, might this draw him into assuming control of all of modern day Dutchland? If so, I suspect this would come at the expense of his Karloman's OTL conquests against the Lombards in Italy and in Hispania.

What do you all think?
 
I'm confused where you got those dates from. It was Karl who died around 771 (772 to be exact, I think.) and Karloman lived until 810.
'Karl' is the name that Charlemagne was known by his contempories, born around 747 and living until early 814.
'Karloman' is his little-known brother than controlled Burgundy and a few other lands. He was born 28 June 751 and died 4 December 771.

- BNC
 
'Karl' is the name that Charlemagne was known by his contempories, born around 747 and living until early 814.
'Karloman' is his little-known brother than controlled Burgundy and a few other lands. He was born 28 June 751 and died 4 December 771.

- BNC

Posts marked DBWI (double what if) are posts where the posters pretend they're in an alternative timeline asking about changes to that timeline rather than our own.

So he posted as if from a timeline where karloman not charlemagne ruled the franks asking how a theoretical charlemagne's rule would go.

Hence the replies.
 
Posts marked DBWI (double what if) are posts where the posters pretend they're in an alternative timeline asking about changes to that timeline rather than our own.

So he posted as if from a timeline where karloman not charlemagne ruled the franks asking how a theoretical charlemagne's rule would go.

Hence the replies.

That explains it. I'm not especially good with the internet slang unfortunately.

In that situation though, the people won't know how well Karl could do as he didn't have any campaigns before he *died. In a Karloman-wins scenario people may believe that Karl was on an average king. They quite likely wouldn't envision an alternate scenario with conquests of stuff like the Avars, that would appear ASB.

- BNC
 
That explains it. I'm not especially good with the internet slang unfortunately.

In that situation though, the people won't know how well Karl could do as he didn't have any campaigns before he *died. In a Karloman-wins scenario people may believe that Karl was on an average king. They quite likely wouldn't envision an alternate scenario with conquests of stuff like the Avars, that would appear ASB.

- BNC

OOC: Exactly! And we theorize about that sort of stuff all the time. Look at how many people post things like "What if Basil II had a son." Since we have no way to determine the qualities that son would have as Emperor, its very difficult to determine. But, hey, we still like to hash it out.

In this ATL, yes, we wouldn't have much information about Karl, but that's part of the fun of the scenario (both from the perspective of the ATL and from OTL, if you gather). :) Its also a fun chance to do some world building, based on other people's posts. For instance, we've established already that Karloman doesn't conquer Saxony in the ATL and that this has some kind of impact on the Vikings and the attempts to Christianize the north. What kind of impact? That will be for a later poster to hint at.
 
OOC: Exactly! And we theorize about that sort of stuff all the time. Look at how many people post things like "What if Basil II had a son." Since we have no way to determine the qualities that son would have as Emperor, its very difficult to determine. But, hey, we still like to hash it out.

In this ATL, yes, we wouldn't have much information about Karl, but that's part of the fun of the scenario (both from the perspective of the ATL and from OTL, if you gather). :) Its also a fun chance to do some world building, based on other people's posts. For instance, we've established already that Karloman doesn't conquer Saxony in the ATL and that this has some kind of impact on the Vikings and the attempts to Christianize the north. What kind of impact? That will be for a later poster to hint at.

Karloman's capital was in Soissons, not far from Karl's at Noyon, at least in the early years of his reign. Saxony is still closer than say, Hispania.

As for the Vikings, I vaguely remember a thread I started about a fortnight ago, we determined not much would change with them, at least with a PoD in or around 771. Which basically means, the keep out of Francia until the sons of Ragnar Lodbrok conquer 2/3 of England and then can't raid there any more. That would be in about 880.

I'm confused where you got those dates from. It was Karl who died around 771 (772 to be exact, I think.) and Karloman lived until 810.

I checked again. It turns out I got them from an Alternate History novel: "The Life of Charles The Great" by some guy called Einhard (770-816) who didn't really like Karloman. It's based on the idea that the assassination attempt on Karloman was successful. The thought of Karloman dying before he had a chance to murder his brother leads to quite an interesting scenario!

- BNC
 
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