DBWI: Jack Kirby leaves Marvel in 1970?

Well, I just got out of the theatre after seeing Avengers: Endgame, and I have to say, it deserves the praise it's getting. It was a perfect ending for so many characters- Captain America, Iron Man, Thor- but perhaps none moreso than the film's villain, and the big bad of the entire MCU thus far, Darkseid. I think it's safe to say that the tyrant of Apokolips will become one of the most iconic villains in film history, right up there with characters like Darth Vader and Blofeld. But that got me thinking; apparently, Jack Kirby almost left Marvel in 1970 because they didn't want to publish his stories about the New Gods; they changed their minds at the last minute. But what if they hadn't? How would the world of entertainment change if characters like Darkseid and Orion went to DC Comics, along with Jack Kirby himself?
 
I think part of it was, according to Kirby, where he and Stan Lee decided to have a night out and they accidentally ended up drunk. They managed to spill out alot of withheld issues and tlak things over. Heck, it's why they're considered Marvel's Dynamic Duo.

Darkseid became a pretty prominent part against the Marvel heroes and only five had really stood up against him thus far (well, exlcuding those of New Genesis) and that was Mar-Vell, Captain America, Thor (obviously), Spider-Man and Valkyrie.

He and his minions are used sparingly and can sometimes be a bit seperated from everyone else. Granted, he's still a threat as seen how he manages to subjugate the All-Black pretty easily.

I could see him be in the DC Unvierse pretty well though. Heck, for Superman's 65th anniversary, Jack Kirby manage to make a graphic novel of Apokalips against the Justice League and Superman managing to fight Darkseid well.

Beyond that though, Jack Kirby did introduce Kamandi and a few other things to Marvel though in spin-off works.

We should examine how DC is like now. DC never really did much with cosmic stuff until the introduction of Thanos, this cosmic conqueror that was the reason why the Guardians of Oa were made. Then came the expansion of the different Lantern Corps as well. And who can forget the Infinity Stones? The Stones of Life, Mind, Space, Time, Principle and Form.

Seeing all the big heroes get them to stop Thanos is always awesome. And then DC built on them by saying they were created by the World Forger and how they served as constants that explained why the Dark Multiverses couldn't exist.
 
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Thanos, this cosmic conqueror that was the reason why the Guardians of Oa were made. Then came the expansion of the different Lantern Corps as well. And who can forget the Infinity Stones? The Stones of Life, Mind, Space, Time, Principle and Form.

Seeing all the big heroes get them to stop Thanos is always awesome. And then DC built on them by saying they were created by the World Forger and how they served as constants that explained why the Dark Multiverses couldn't exist.
Seriously, if Thanos was in MCU instead of Darkseid, MCU would have been less popular.
 
Seriously, if Thanos was in MCU instead of Darkseid, MCU would have been less popular.

Thanos could’ve worked as well if they changed a bit. Ironically enough, the two have caused shifts a bit in their universes. Thanos helped give more nuance to the villains and make the heroes stand out more to make tough choices. Darkseid meanwhile actually gave such a strong evil presence into Marvel it made the heroes more heroic and be better.
 
I think part of it was, according to Kirby, where he and Stan Lee decided to have a night out and they accidentally ended up drunk. They managed to spill out alot of withheld issues and tlak things over. Heck, it's why they're considered Marvel's Dynamic Duo.

Artistic patnership, as friendship and marriage need much care and have their up and down; Kirby at the time wanted more control (both artistic and financial) on his work and more importantly being considered something more than half of the Lee/Kirby duo...expecially in a moment when he felt he was doing the great bulk of the work.
Fortunately the relationships between Stan and Jack was much different than the one between Lee and Dikto as the Man and the King were friends even out of work...and Stan used a lot of his influence to create a deal that was good for both Kirby and Marvel.

Let's see what the greatest changes will be in case Kirby goes to DC, for first Starlin, without any sudden drama, will remain at Marvel and will surely pitch Thanos for them...it was the creation of New Gods that basically nixed the introduction of Thanos in the Marvel Universe as it looked as a ripoff of Darkseid (ironically it was more inspired to Metron at the beginning), so Starlin brought his creation to the Distinguished Competition.

Ironically the marvel less space faring hero will be the more affected, as Spider-man in the years has been very tied to the Darkseid mythos; sure Mar-vell it's his nemesis, Captain America as the living emboidment of freedom it's a natural enemy, Thor and Valkyrie had the same level of power (more or less)...but good old spidey is the only one in the entire universe that can really really go in his skin and piss him off beyond reason. While all other treat him as the ubermenace he is and as a god, Peter mocking him on and on, make him go really nuts and many times he 'helped' his enemy go against him; not considering Lashina of the Female Furies, his own psychostalker with a crush...the moment he beat her easily it was the start of a one sided love at first fist (sure i can easily go without al the NSFW BDSM themed artwork of the two).
Frankly till Slott and Strasinsky respective run, the various team-up in the comic of the marvel cosmic side was the only place where Spiderman was depicted constantly as the experienced, competent and famous hero that he was, with people in awe in his presence...sure in his own title was not a moron, but seemed that they were too attached at the 'everyman loser' take of the character
 
Artistic patnership, as friendship and marriage need much care and have their up and down; Kirby at the time wanted more control (both artistic and financial) on his work and more importantly being considered something more than half of the Lee/Kirby duo...expecially in a moment when he felt he was doing the great bulk of the work.
Fortunately the relationships between Stan and Jack was much different than the one between Lee and Dikto as the Man and the King were friends even out of work...and Stan used a lot of his influence to create a deal that was good for both Kirby and Marvel.

Let's see what the greatest changes will be in case Kirby goes to DC, for first Starlin, without any sudden drama, will remain at Marvel and will surely pitch Thanos for them...it was the creation of New Gods that basically nixed the introduction of Thanos in the Marvel Universe as it looked as a ripoff of Darkseid (ironically it was more inspired to Metron at the beginning), so Starlin brought his creation to the Distinguished Competition.

Ironically the marvel less space faring hero will be the more affected, as Spider-man in the years has been very tied to the Darkseid mythos; sure Mar-vell it's his nemesis, Captain America as the living emboidment of freedom it's a natural enemy, Thor and Valkyrie had the same level of power (more or less)...but good old spidey is the only one in the entire universe that can really really go in his skin and piss him off beyond reason. While all other treat him as the ubermenace he is and as a god, Peter mocking him on and on, make him go really nuts and many times he 'helped' his enemy go against him; not considering Lashina of the Female Furies, his own psychostalker with a crush...the moment he beat her easily it was the start of a one sided love at first fist (sure i can easily go without al the NSFW BDSM themed artwork of the two).
Frankly till Slott and Strasinsky respective run, the various team-up in the comic of the marvel cosmic side was the only place where Spiderman was depicted constantly as the experienced, competent and famous hero that he was, with people in awe in his presence...sure in his own title was not a moron, but seemed that they were too attached at the 'everyman loser' take of the character

Absolutely, though Thanos did help become more of a reoccuring threat to Superman and did help remind readers that even there are foes Superman would struggle with. Also, Thanos and his Black Order brought a real villainous cosmic force that justified the existence of the Guardians. Hell, his rather byronicesque attitude had him appear in Sandman at one point.

Yeah, it's pretty surprising how Spidey has fared with him on that. Mar-Vell was more his largest opposition (since Orion and Mr. Miracle are Darkseid's nemesises) until he passed awau, Cap is a given and of course Thor given that's where he was introduced and Valkyrie for similar reasons. Spidey meanwhile just does not annoy him, but really gets under his skin. Deadpool is the bigger annoyance, but he does have the antithetical glare to him like Spidey does.

Yeah, Cosmic Spidey was something pretty unique and it gave Ben Riley something to do and it showed Peter more his scientific smarts. And the thing with him and Lashina is pretty funny. Granted, there is some support for the pairing; look how a spin-off title that envisioned her leaving Darkseid and becoming his partner went (replacing her lashes with webs).

I think though they have a good balance of his eperience and relatability. Heck, it's part of the charm how much of a normal guy if not a dork he is. Does not take away from him. I think this was what inspried DC to give Blue Beetle more staying power with Ted Kord.
 
Well the Black Order are a more recent creation, so to give him a more regular team to interact...as to ride the success of the dysfunctional family approach that had made Gamora a recent standout, even if most of the author treat them like regular enchmen and skip the familiar banter and problem between the Titan and his adopted daughter.

Much of the spiderman approach to Darkseid and his reaction is due to DeMatteis and Shooter with Peter David later perfected, they though how a RL absolute dictator will have react to someone like Peter that mock everyone without any stop...and the rest is history.
Regarding Lashina, well, in all honestly i liked the idea at the beginning and i full understand the narrative of why happen, it's just that yes, is real pretty funny or very interesting if approached with serious intent...if they give the story at a good author like DeMatteis, Waid, Slott or Micheline but i still need to shout at the sky when someone name the Chuck Austen run, really why whoever the editor was at the time thought that was a real good idea, a story were, among other thing, Lashina kill in a gruesome manner some C-list spidey villain and some former Peter girlfriend to prove her love to him...not including so much BDSM imagenery and subtext that i still wonder why the comic was for adult only...and the horrible thing was that this was not even the worse happening in Austen run. In interwiew later he said that in the end he wanted Peter and her in a relationship that will have become the dark mirror reflection of Mr.Miracle and Barda.
Haven's sake IRC it was so reviled that Austen was take out of Amazing immediately and his story considered non canon (a real rarity for Marvel)

Yeah, Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) has always been the expy for SPiderman the moment he was introduced in the DC universe properly
 
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Talking back to Kirby going to DC, well i think that Darkseid, even if now and thanks to the MCU for the general public, is forever tied to Marvel, he can work against Superman and the Justice League even as a more straighforward villain than the more complex character of Thanos.
But we must also talking about the other consequences not related directly to the comic, Kirby agreement with Marvel was used as a blueprint in the following years as a deal with various author for creator owned production by Marvel...without that, no Amazing Stories imprint
 
Well the Black Order are a more recent creation, so to give him a more regular team to interact...as to ride the success of the dysfunctional family approach that had made Gamora a recent standout, even if most of the author treat them like regular enchmen and skip the familiar banter and problem between the Titan and his adopted daughter.

Much of the spiderman approach to Darkseid and his reaction is due to DeMatteis and Shooter with Peter David later perfected, they though how a RL absolute dictator will have react to someone like Peter that mock everyone without any stop...and the rest is history.
Regarding Lashina, well, in all honestly i liked the idea at the beginning and i full understand the narrative of why happen, it's just that yes, is real pretty funny or very interesting if approached with serious intent...if they give the story at a good author like DeMatteis, Waid, Slott or Micheline but i still need to shout at the sky when someone name the Chuck Austen run, really why whoever the editor was at the time thought that was a real good idea, a story were, among other thing, Lashina kill in a gruesome manner some C-list spidey villain and some former Peter girlfriend to prove her love to him...not including so much BDSM imagenery and subtext that i still wonder why the comic was for adult only...and the horrible thing was that this was not even the worse happening in Austen run. In interwiew later he said that in the end he wanted Peter and her in a relationship that will have become the dark mirror reflection of Mr.Miracle and Barda.
Haven's sake IRC it was so reviled that Austen was take out of Amazing immediately and his story considered non canon (a real rarity for Marvel)

Yeah, Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) has always been the expy for SPiderman the moment he was introduced in the DC universe properly

Yeah! Gamora was an interesting addition. She helped bring Martian Manhunter into prominence by being the first human/Martian hybrid and it reminded DC they should do more with Mars. She’s not related to J’onn though, but was still nice to see G’Mora help do more with the Martians.

And the Austen run... cringe.

I think Darkseid’s current run is among the best and the battle of wills between him and Black Panther is pretty epic thus far
 
Not to mention Kirby really fleshed out the Marvel cosmology - the Nova Corps, the Eternals and the Celestials, not to mention that beautiful run he and Stan did of the Silver Surfer. He introduced characters that other authors would really run with, like Etrigan the Demon, the Centurions, and the various "Kirbyverse" stuff. Hell, two of my favorite Marvel characters, Lobo and Hitman, got their starts from works Kirby worked on - no telling if we'd have ever gotten them had Kirby jumped ship to DC.
 
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