DBWI Italy joins the Axis

OTL right before the invasion of france Adolf Hitler visited Italy on a diplomatic mission, he found a jewish girl during a party and was in one of his manic moods. He slapped her, and went on a rage filled rant, said woman was Benito's Mistress.

A private talk afterwards convinced Musulini that Adolf was crazy and he decided to sit out the invasion of france, and the early part of the second world war, with the american entrance into the war Italy joined the allies.

But what if that fateful party had not happened what would the world look like if Italy had joined the Axis? Instead of the Allies?
 
OCC He was on a lot of drugs, a meth fueled rage was possible OCC
OCC True OCC
All I can say is the British would have a lot of fun ruining the Italian Navy
The whole thing at Mers el Kebir could have been...better
 
OOC: What is the position of Greece and Yugoslavia? Did they fight the Italians? Did the Germans support the Serbs more versus the benevolently neutral Italians and the Croats? Also, Hitler didn't have drug problems until late in the war, and only because his doctor had been prescribing them. Also, how would he know the woman was Jewish? I know that during the Night of the Broken Glass that Germans attacked someone from a Portuguese embassy or consulate because they thought he was Jewish, and.... Huh, that didn't go where I was thinking with this line of of thought. Anyways, how would he know she was Jewish? And wouldn't Hitler meeting the mistress of Mussolini make he himself more suspicious of the Italians?
 

Deleted member 97083

If Italy joined the Axis, I doubt the New Roman Empire would have survived even a decade. Mussolini would have been taken down by the Allies, just like Hitler.

Instead of Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, and West Turkey going to Italy as a bulwark against communism, we would see those countries either liberated as members of NATO, or falling under the thumb of Stalin.
 
If Italy joined the Axis, I doubt the New Roman Empire would have survived even a decade. Mussolini would have been taken down by the Allies, just like Hitler.

Instead of Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, and West Turkey going to Italy as a bulwark against communism, we would see those countries either liberated as members of NATO, or falling under the thumb of Stalin.
And then of course there is still the veeeeery controversial policies of the Italians early on to act as Middlemen between the two groups. Sure, the Germans didn't have too much interest in the Mediterranean, so it wasn't the worse thing to have Italy help funnel in needed materials from Latin America, but... Well, remember the colonization periods with Poles? Where Polish people who were sufficiently educated to speak Italian or at least to be decent farmers were sent to Italy or to the Horn Provinces of Italy in East Africa? Though I really have never been clear on what the situation with the Enpire of Ethiopia and the Kingdom of Italy was or is. Personal union? Anyways, I think the Germans even sent over a lot of Jews (or partial Jews, given they were seldom from Yiddish communities, but were Christians of Jewish descent or the autonous sort). Certainly helped confuse matters for the rebels in East Africa as to if these were also from the tribes of Israel. But yes, this sort of thing strengthened the Italian position of protecting their friends, so I believe they have one of the highest Polish populatoins in the world. Argentina is proportionately a bit higher probably, but that is because of Poles marrying Nubians, Abynissians, Bantus, Somalis, and the other groups in East Africa.
 
Do you mean the small part of Dobruja south of the Danube? Of course after Romania unified with it and Moldova they generally have a pro-Italian position, but it was not that true when most of the country was under communists.

Also, what do you think'll happen in Libya? I guess there wouldn't be a european-majority colony in Africa if France or England take it after the war.
And what do you think'll happen to the French Free State Mk.II in Algeria were it not for late Mussolini's support? Would a much earlier division of the country be possible? It'll save a lot of hardship between algerians and pied-noirs.
 

Deleted member 97083

And then of course there is still the veeeeery controversial policies of the Italians early on to act as Middlemen between the two groups. Sure, the Germans didn't have too much interest in the Mediterranean, so it wasn't the worse thing to have Italy help funnel in needed materials from Latin America, but... Well, remember the colonization periods with Poles? Where Polish people who were sufficiently educated to speak Italian or at least to be decent farmers were sent to Italy or to the Horn Provinces of Italy in East Africa? Though I really have never been clear on what the situation with the Enpire of Ethiopia and the Kingdom of Italy was or is. Personal union? Anyways, I think the Germans even sent over a lot of Jews (or partial Jews, given they were seldom from Yiddish communities, but were Christians of Jewish descent or the autonous sort). Certainly helped confuse matters for the rebels in East Africa as to if these were also from the tribes of Israel. But yes, this sort of thing strengthened the Italian position of protecting their friends, so I believe they have one of the highest Polish populatoins in the world. Argentina is proportionately a bit higher probably, but that is because of Poles marrying Nubians, Abynissians, Bantus, Somalis, and the other groups in East Africa.
Well, I believe enough members of the Polish diaspora have immigrated to Poland so that Poland has just barely overcome the Italian-Roman Empire in terms of highest Polish population. And Poland is now steadily recovering from the damages of the war. But you make good points here.

Do you mean the small part of Dobruja south of the Danube? Of course after Romania unified with it and Moldova they generally have a pro-Italian position, but it was not that true when most of the country was under communists.

Also, what do you think'll happen in Libya? I guess there wouldn't be a european-majority colony in Africa if France or England take it after the war.
And what do you think'll happen to the French Free State Mk.II in Algeria were it not for late Mussolini's support? Would a much earlier division of the country be possible? It'll save a lot of hardship between algerians and pied-noirs.
Not just pro-Italian: Romanians actually call themselves Romans and descendants of Trajan in their national anthem, Deșteaptă-te, române!

But you're right, I should have said Dobruja, since Mussolini was long dead by the time the areas north of the Danube became part of the Italian sphere of influence.

Libya definitely won't be European majority without Mussolini's policies. But most of the "New Romans" were assimilated Libyans rather than Italian settlers.

Pied-Noirs were going to leave Algeria anyway, I think. If they went to France instead of Italian Libya, they probably wouldn't be constantly interfering in Algerian politics, so there would be less hardship between Algerians and Pied-Noirs. Unless it took an actual war between Algerians and Pied-Noirs for them to leave. Then there would be far more hardship.
 
Also, what do you think'll happen in Libya? I guess there wouldn't be a european-majority colony in Africa if France or England take it after the war.
For the love of- do you consider Brittany or Newoundland to be colonies? Because why Libya was once a colony, I would say the colonialism stage is pretty much over. The Italians may not have swallowed up the population as well as the Chileans and Argentinaians or Americans had, but the coast- Well, once the Catholics had a lot of titular bishops for areas of North Africa that hadn't been reclaimed. Those titles are no longer empty. srill some trouble in the Fezzan, but for the most part the Neo-Crusaders are content. I am unsure if they will accept the Copts leading zealot to be sufficient, but they are retaking the Medditeranean. All it took was a couple hundred thousand refugees from the north. Who knows? Maybe they will even finalize the deals to get the Orthodox and Oriental Churches under the Pope again.
 
A good reason for Italy to stay out was that selling iron ore from the recently opened mines in Libya to both sides was a nice little earner of badly needed foreign currency. Without that it would have been forced to barter arms for raw materials. Imagine how people would have laughed for example if in the spring of 1940 they had swapped 4 destroyers and hundreds or aeroplanes for iron ore with Sweden.

Also the pro-British Count Caprioni had signed the first of several lucrative deals to build aircraft for the RAF.

The best thing for Mussolini to do was stay neutral and play both sides off against each other to the maximum possible benefit to Italy. I.e. exactly what he did IOTL.

How much better off would Benito's friend Francisco have been in 1945 had he followed the same policy? I think I can safely say that he would not have been left hanging from a lamp post by a mob of his own people.
 

Deleted member 97083

I am unsure if they will accept the Copts leading zealot to be sufficient, but they are retaking the Medditeranean. All it took was a couple hundred thousand refugees from the north. Who knows? Maybe they will even finalize the deals to get the Orthodox and Oriental Churches under the Pope again.
The reunification of the churches in the 80s is unlikely to happen again. The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore, Orthodox Christians are free to practice their religion now.

Although, I guess if the citizens of Nuova Roma vote Leave in the Istanbulexit referendum, leaving the Roman Union to rejoin Turkey... then, and only then, Greek and Bulgarian irredentists might agitate for another Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and maybe a unification of the churches. But it's really unlikely that Leave will get a majority of the votes.
 
in terms of highest Polish population
To be fair polish jews are generally written down as simply polish by Nuova Roma statisticians, without that Poland never actually stopped being "the most polish" country at all.
under the Pope again
John Paul II was a one time deal. I don't think there will be anybody as charismatic sitting on Papal Throne in the next hundred years.
Istanbulexit referendum
I hope the early 20th century memories of anti-greek pogroms won't resurface. As polls show, the City is heavily divided among ethnic lines.
 
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