DBWI Italy enters the world wars

Victor Emmanuel III referred to the first world war as an act of madness when it was finally over. When the war started both sides of the conflict wanted Italy to join. The central powers talked about earlier agreements and the Allies made vague promises about future land grabs. King Victor refused both and vetoed any attempts by Parlament to join the war. He stated that both side were wrong, the Serbs had murdered a member of a royal family and the germans invaded a neutral country. Italy would not be a part of an unjust war, this earned him a large amount of scorn from the Hawks of Italy's government but in time his decision proved to be wise.

The first world war was a blood bath, when the second world war came Victor had grown more religious with age and demanded that Italy concentrate on settling and christianizing their colony in north africa. I wont talk about how those efforts went but the second world war was also a blood bath, and once again Italy walked out of it untouched.

But what would have happened if Italy had joined the world wars would they be shorter? Would it have changed who won? Was Victor right would entering the wars have spelled the end of Italy's one colony and its third coast? Or would they be better off?
 
If Italy joins the Centrals they obviously still win like OTL. Italy joining the Entente changes everything. The amount of Austro-Hungarian troops that would be tied up by the fighting would probably mean that AH doesn't contribute to the Western Front at all, and Austrian troops served with distinction in taking Verdun and in stopping the Somme offensive. They were also active in the Siege of Paris, the last battle of the war. Since for WWII I can't see them joining the Russians, I guess they could be useful as reserves for Germany? I can't see them joining with the National Militarists, so yeah. I'm more interested in what happens domestically. The Italian Monarchy is one of the most popular in the world pretty much because of VEIII's policy of pacifism. Vorbeck might have dismissed the Italians as cowards, but not fighting two world wars meant that Italy had the best economy in Europe after the war. It also meant that we were able to integrate Libya successfully, despite the best efforts of Nasser. Honestly, this as a question is too much of a wild card; it really does change everything.
 
Italy had interest in much of Austria(-Hungary)s posessions - the Dalmatian Coast (belonging to Venice one time), Trieste, Trentino,... and wanted Morea (Peloponnes) also once an "italian" posession. So I am wondering THAT it did NOT jump in to round two. Especially when the Bolsheviki captured Krakau, Warsaw and came near Berlin (less than 100KM).
 

Delta Force

Banned
Without the distraction of war, Italy was able to focus heavily on developing Libya. Although the early colonization efforts launched for nationalist reasons and to try to stem immigration were derided as "Emmanuel's folly" at the time, they really gave Italy a good foundation for developing the province later on. The fields came online just as World War II was breaking out and allowed the country to remain neutral. The production ramp up wasn't completed until after the war, but it definitely produced a windfall when the Germans came looking for a new source of petroleum following the revolution against the Hashemites. Turkish Petroleum certainly wasn't happy to have to sit down at the same table with an upstart like Agip at the Consortium for Mesopotamia meetings. The discovery of all that natural gas (stranded at the time until they developed LNG technology to get it out) and the vast aquifers under the region really helped development too.

Libya Province and Southern Italy aren't too happy about the massive wealth transfers that go to the North, but the region never quite recovered from all the energy and heavy industry infrastructure that flocked to the region. You wouldn't know it now, but prior to the 1950s the North was actually the more developed and industrialized part of Italy.

If Italy had entered the war, it's possible that France or Austria-Hungary might have gone on to seize Libya. Perhaps it could have made France actually fight for Algeria. After crushing defeat in both world wars, there was no way they could hold onto the whole Province.
 
Italy had interest in much of Austria(-Hungary)s posessions - the Dalmatian Coast (belonging to Venice one time), Trieste, Trentino,... and wanted Morea (Peloponnes) also once an "italian" posession. So I am wondering THAT it did NOT jump in to round two. Especially when the Bolsheviki captured Krakau, Warsaw and came near Berlin (less than 100KM).

Well during the first round, it's almost happened...in all honestly the entente offer was everything Italy desired but between the King indecision and Giolitti (the prime minister at the time) unwillingness to commit military forces in what he seen as a too costly endevour it was decided to pass that offer and continue the (very very difficult) negotiation with Wien regarding compensation for neutrality.

Basically better get something for doing almost nothing than the all enchilada to partecipate in an extremely risky and costly adventure...and with the post-war economic blues and political violence engulfing victors and losers alike with hindsight it was a very wise decision; after all getting Trentino, Albania and other little concessions in exchange to make business with the CP at extremely good term for us had done a lot of good at Italy.

During the second round, Italy basically hated both side. Relations with Germany, the Ottoman Empire and expecially A-H were, let's say formal, but extremely cold, but everybody in Rome knowed that Troskyst Eurasia and the Neo-Burbouns in France will have attacked Italy the moment that the Germans and co. were defeated.
So Prime Minister Mussolini repetead the lesson of 1915 and accepted the little Anglo-French bribe for doing nothing and waited.

Well we can say that the lesson learned by Italy in the 20th century is: if you are not excessively greedy you will be very happy.
 
If Italy joins the Centrals they obviously still win like OTL. Italy joining the Entente changes everything. The amount of Austro-Hungarian troops that would be tied up by the fighting would probably mean that AH doesn't contribute to the Western Front at all, and Austrian troops served with distinction in taking Verdun and in stopping the Somme offensive. They were also active in the Siege of Paris, the last battle of the war.

Well, from a certain pow Italy attaking A-H it's a blessing in disguise; Austria hold basically all the cards at the border with Italy; so while will be costly it will be nothing like the slaughterhouse that was the Western Front.
Better remember that sure, the Somme offensive was stopped but the Austrian contingent was basically wiped out from the face of the planet; this combined with the Brusilov Offensive (OOC: slightly more succesfull of OTL due to the CP more logistic strain to support austrian troops sent to the western front), at made A-H come very very close to be forced to exit the war.

Since for WWII I can't see them joining the Russians, I guess they could be useful as reserves for Germany? I can't see them joining with the National Militarists, so yeah. I'm more interested in what happens domestically. The Italian Monarchy is one of the most popular in the world pretty much because of VEIII's policy of pacifism.

Domestically it's tricky, WWI was a very critical period of the italian political history; the liberals age was at the end and socialist and authoritarian groups were on the rise. See the post war trouble of everyone i doubt that the monarchy will have survived even in case of victory.

Vorbeck might have dismissed the Italians as cowards, but not fighting two world wars meant that Italy had the best economy in Europe after the war.

For this reason we don't be offended that much when we are called in this manner...we are too busy count our money:D
 
No I don't think an alpine front would be a blessing ;)

A-H contingent on the "western" front consisted mainly of troops from Bohemia, Moravia and the Southern borders (including Transilvania). The loss of so many men - and some of them were choosen for the Western Front especially because they were known dissidents - was a blessing in disguise for the Germans and Hungarians later on - no men who would fight fior independence ;) - forming the Triple Monarchy between Austria Hungary and Poland - well if it had not happened you would call it ASB...

While Italy had the strongest economy immediately after teh wars it was soon surpassed by the other nations again - so much was destroyed that the rebuilding to newest technology happened faster than in countries "spared" from the war.

OOC:p
 
Well during the first round, it's almost happened...in all honestly the entente offer was everything Italy desired but between the King indecision and Giolitti (the prime minister at the time) unwillingness to commit military forces in what he seen as a too costly endevour it was decided to pass that offer and continue the (very very difficult) negotiation with Wien regarding compensation for neutrality.

Basically better get something for doing almost nothing than the all enchilada to partecipate in an extremely risky and costly adventure...and with the post-war economic blues and political violence engulfing victors and losers alike with hindsight it was a very wise decision; after all getting Trentino, Albania and other little concessions in exchange to make business with the CP at extremely good term for us had done a lot of good at Italy.

During the second round, Italy basically hated both side. Relations with Germany, the Ottoman Empire and expecially A-H were, let's say formal, but extremely cold, but everybody in Rome knowed that Troskyst Eurasia and the Neo-Burbouns in France will have attacked Italy the moment that the Germans and co. were defeated.
So Prime Minister Mussolini repetead the lesson of 1915 and accepted the little Anglo-French bribe for doing nothing and waited.

Well we can say that the lesson learned by Italy in the 20th century is: if you are not excessively greedy you will be very happy.

The Brits techically stayed out of the second conflict, yes they sold arms to every one, and british guns found their way into the hands of every rebel group in the Ottoman empire, but they were techically neutral.
 
No I don't think an alpine front would be a blessing ;)

A-H contingent on the "western" front consisted mainly of troops from Bohemia, Moravia and the Southern borders (including Transilvania). The loss of so many men - and some of them were choosen for the Western Front especially because they were known dissidents - was a blessing in disguise for the Germans and Hungarians later on - no men who would fight fior independence ;) - forming the Triple Monarchy between Austria Hungary and Poland - well if it had not happened you would call it ASB...

While Italy had the strongest economy immediately after teh wars it was soon surpassed by the other nations again - so much was destroyed that the rebuilding to newest technology happened faster than in countries "spared" from the war.

OOC:p

OOC: :p:p Nice Try;)

Yes in little more than a decade A-H and France economy surpassed Italy again...but better consider the fact that by that time huge chunk of that places were owned by italian interest. Hell Italian consortium owned enough of A-H that keep the place alive become an important part of the italian foreign policy, at least till the agreement of 54.

Well, regarding the blessing i was talking in relative term, as from a military and logistical PoW A-H was more at advantage fighting Italy on the Isonzo than aid Germany in that slaughterhouse that was the Western Front, so it's probable that in that case there will be less than the almost 2 million of casualities of OTL.
Sure sending to fight the troublesome minority was a good idea in term of internal politics; less on term of military efficiency and morale as the Hapsburg contingent, unless under German direction/command, was know to be the weak link of the front.

Not considering between the loss of the war and the 'troubles' (Polish revolt, the Hungarian intervention and the Red Years) A-H loss enough men to create a demographic problem very similar to France.
 
The Brits techically stayed out of the second conflict, yes they sold arms to every one, and british guns found their way into the hands of every rebel group in the Ottoman empire, but they were techically neutral.

Hey, Mosley and co. played it smart, first they helped France and even the URSS to get back on their feet, later they supported Paris effort to keep Italy neutral but friendly towards them (at least at the beginning) and later tried every trick in the manual short of DoW to help the Franco-Soviet Axis during the conflict.
And during all that time, staying confortable on their little island making money on both side...and later absorbing the remaining French Empire in the Anglo-French Union; well there's a reason why Great Britain is still one of the big three.
 
Top