DBWI Ireland doesnt get the bomb

1971

The Lynch administration successfully detonated a nuclear weapon off the coast of clare county. This event shocked the united kingdom who demanded that Ireland dismantle all of their nuclear weapons and allow inspectors protected by british military personal to make sure this program was dismantled, and threatened military intervention if they didn't allow this.

Nuclear Jack as he would come to be called told them that if they invaded it would cost them London. Then in an act that many said destroyed his political career Prime minister Edward Heath told Lynch to give him one reason why Ireland needed nuclear weapons.

The Lynch administration responded to that quote by having a team of Irish historians list every known atrocity the british inflicted on the Irish people. Then Heath asked what it would cost to get rid of the Irish nuclear program.

The Lynch administration said the complete nuclear disarmament of the UK, would be acceptable.

For obvious reasons the UK refused, instead they used their fincial influence to try to convince Ireland to get rid of their nuclear program telling them that they would not be allowed to join the EU until they got rid of it.

Irish nationalists felt insulted and accepted that they would never be allowed to join.

Its been over 30 years and Ireland still has around a hundred nuclear weapons, the republic is still not a member of the EU, but they are still an independent nation.

But what if Ireland didn't get the bomb how would that change Irish and world history?
 
So to actually answer the thread, it would obviously mean that instead of Richard of York lord lieutenant of Ireland eventually killing Henry Vi in battle and uniting all the factions; The English, Irish Gaelic, Anglo Irish and Welsh to his banner before becoming one of Pan Brittania’s greatest monarchs, he is killed and decapitated, humiliated too by having a paper crown placed on his head just to underline his failure and deter his followers.

With Richard dead, this would I mean that Henry vi would continue to ignore Ireland and perceive it as a back water - further utilising the hated coign and livery also. Ireland never then obviously becomes the second capital of the new empire of Richard and his self styled Pan Brittania (though to be fair this particular nomenclature was borne a generation or so later according to historians). Therefore Britain in this timeline probably at some point invades and fails or even if it succeeds it probably won’t become economically viable due to the Irish Gaelic warlords existing far longer in this time line making predations on the English financial endeavours.

So fast forward a century or two and there is no Pan Britannia civil war in 1953 between mainland Britain and Ireland , no break up of the union of Pan Brittanica and no nuclear weapons.
 
Pop-culture portrayals of Ireland are a lot less caustic than IOTL, eg. we don't get all those parody cereal ads from radio shock-jocks.

"Always after me Lucky Charms, the frosted oat cereal with sweet surprises:
Pink hearts, yellow moons, green clovers, and orange fallout."

And then the sound of the explosion, and the kids suddenly stop yelling for Lucky to share his charms.

(If anyone can find those old spots somewhere on the internet, I'd be extremely grateful.)
 
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Probably eould have seen more llow level terrorism from groups like the IRA. I mean the bombs really put a lot of cold water on wome of the mess in theb1960s
 
The Irish would be in better economic straits. They don’t have the same clout Norway does and without the EU advantages, that doesn’t leave them with many options. USA pretty much was on unpleasant terms and China was mainly cordial.

Ireland did manage to find a niche with Mexico and Central America of all nations, if because of the Catholic faith and global neutrality. Basically serving as a port for European goods for them and at the least, Belize treats Ireland nicely and so does Canada.

Ironically enough, the Catholic Church’a condemnation of Ireland’s arsenal and Mexico’s support as such led to the rise of neopaganism in those nations and in Central America by proxy. Ireland tripled down on their pre-Anglo Celtic background and even some small groups began worshipping reformed versions of the old faith, which inspired a similar reaction in Mexico and Central America. Not as much in South America though the indigenous peoples liked the renewed interest.

But yeah, Ireland’s economic situation was on pretty shaky terms and basically had to rely on dumb luck to get itself together. They’ve become the “Poor Man’s Switzerland”

Things are a bit better now since there is global nuclear disarming happening slowly.

This killed Heath’s career and then Thatcher took over. She became the UK’s Nixon pretty much and Conservative party got the snot beaten out of it by the 1980 after the oil crisises. US’s Democrats and UK’s Labour Party ushered in neoprogressivism and basically brought a lot of much needed reforms. Not sure if he would’ve had that if Heath didn’t kill his career and Thatcher showed the world she was nuts.
 

Ramontxo

Donor
So to actually answer the thread, it would obviously mean that instead of Richard of York lord lieutenant of Ireland eventually killing Henry Vi in battle and uniting all the factions; The English, Irish Gaelic, Anglo Irish and Welsh to his banner before becoming one of Pan Brittania’s greatest monarchs, he is killed and decapitated, humiliated too by having a paper crown placed on his head just to underline his failure and deter his followers.

With Richard dead, this would I mean that Henry vi would continue to ignore Ireland and perceive it as a back water - further utilising the hated coign and livery also. Ireland never then obviously becomes the second capital of the new empire of Richard and his self styled Pan Brittania (though to be fair this particular nomenclature was borne a generation or so later according to historians). Therefore Britain in this timeline probably at some point invades and fails or even if it succeeds it probably won’t become economically viable due to the Irish Gaelic warlords existing far longer in this time line making predations on the English financial endeavours.

So fast forward a century or two and there is no Pan Britannia civil war in 1953 between mainland Britain and Ireland , no break up of the union of Pan Brittanica and no nuclear weapons.

OOC but this is a POD for a time line I would really like to read. So in your opinion Richard of York could have united the two islands in one kingdom?
 
What would it need for a small group of Irish nuclear scientists to quietly develop a new generation of nuclear weapons that are far less expensive to manufacture?
Irish scientists are allowed to study abroad, but out-right spying or buying nuclear secrets is the lazy-mans-way.

Plus, they have to be built in Southern Ireland after the 1919 Revolution.
 

Ramontxo

Donor
An Irish civil nuclear reactor, maybe with French help. The Irish government going nuts and actually wanting them (and deciding to spend inordinate amounts of money in it). Getting technical help that I doubt very much could have been found in the country. And ( this is really ASB) nobody noticing until it was done. Of course then you have to get the Irish government to actually blackmail Britain with them (something that I don't believe even DeV after drinking as much 60* degrees Connemara as some member of this forum once did would have ever considered)
 
OOC but this is a POD for a time line I would really like to read. So in your opinion Richard of York could have united the two islands in one kingdom?

Yes imho. I am coincidently reading literature on late medieval Ireland seems to me there were numerous opportunities which could have brought the two nations closer as opposed to open warfare and division. Obviously rapacious English expansionistic philosophy was the root cause but many Irish Gaelic leaders could have acted less rapacious themselves. And maybe also chosen wiser, long term strategic paths which could have either expelled the English or given them a greater slice of the cake.

Richard of York was that rare thing, respected on all sides in Ireland in the most part. By all contemporary accounts a very charismatic leader who sought cooperation with the “Wild Irish”.
 
Any idea how Nuclear Jack is going to deliver the London weapon? In a transit van, via the Liverpool ferry, possibly?

It's obvious. The Irish government has a supply clerk in the Philly naval yard mislay USS Alaska which magically shows up in an Irish port. Suitably impressed Ian Paisley converts to the RCC and becomes the first Irish Pope.
 
Well, Northern Ireland would have ironically been less likely too actually rejoin the republic after the referendum in 2012, as the entire reason that referendum ended up actually succeeding was due to the huge number of loyalists who ended up boycotting the vote on the issue in order too protest the administration even allowing it too occur in the first place, which was also in large part due to anger and nationalist feelings which were inflamed even more by memories of 1971, and there confidence that the votes for actully joining in the first place would be so low as a result of that. Of course, that allowed the large catholic and Irish population an unexpected advantage in the vote that led to the narrow victory and the success of the referendum, to the complete shock of everybody who had been observing these events or knew anything about northern Irish history. Of course this itself has led to the rise of the “new troubles” from the huge loyalist backlash against this decision and refusal too accept integration into Ireland as a whole, and it’s as a result viewed as an extremely mixed blessing or even as a huge burden by a huge portion of the Irish population, even among those who are extreme nationalists. And of course there is also the way that this has led to the massive resurgence of the British Far right and the extreme degradation of relations between the two nations in recent years, which again is proving to many that this was ultimately a pretty bad decision in hindsight.
 
OOC but this is a POD for a time line I would really like to read. So in your opinion Richard of York could have united the two islands in one kingdom?
You make Cromwells absolute rampage through Ireland not happen and the Irish would not have the hatred for the British they had OTL
The Gaelic irish had no real problems with the Normans and they mingled well into the population becoming "more Irish than the Irish themselves"
If you can have that continue on you'll have a lot less problems
 
You make Cromwells absolute rampage through Ireland not happen and the Irish would not have the hatred for the British they had OTL
The Gaelic irish had no real problems with the Normans and they mingled well into the population becoming "more Irish than the Irish themselves"
If you can have that continue on you'll have a lot less problems
OOC: Can you guys please mark your out of charecter posts as such? This is a DBWI.
 
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