DBWI: Independent Ireland

Whats the best POD to get an independent Ireland post 1900? How would British politics have developed if Ireland had become an independent country? Would it have included Ulster and if not what would have happened to Ulster due to areas of it having large catholic minorities? How would Home Rule have progressed in Scotland and Wales without the example of Ireland?
 
Whats the best POD to get an independent Ireland post 1900? How would British politics have developed if Ireland had become an independent country? Would it have included Ulster and if not what would have happened to Ulster due to areas of it having large catholic minorities? How would Home Rule have progressed in Scotland and Wales without the example of Ireland?

Can't see it. The Easter Rising would be your best bet, but it was poorly planned, poorly executed and poorly supported. People who talk about a successful rising usually fantasise about millions of German small arms somehow slipping the blockade, and choose to gloss over that when they were dragged out of the GPO the 'rebels' got pelted with rubbish and rotten fruit.

Britain played it particularly well by acting as if it was just a police matter and not one of 'rebellion', which would have given the plotters a status they in no way deserved. It would also have meant the authorities had no option but the death penalty, which would have turned a badly organised rabble into martyrs on a par with those of the 18th and 19th centuries.
 
Depends on where you want to put the POD, after 1900 will be hard. Home Rule was on its way, there was consensus by 1901, the only issue was ulster. Pre, I suppose you could have the British botch the response to the famine. In terms of local British politics, depends. Ireland is a world of its own half the time, with the Irish Parliamentary Party and Sinn Fein holding most of the seats. But I suppose the Conservatives might be weaker without the extra seats from the Irish Unionist Party.

I suppose without Irish Home Rule, we might see Britain remain centralised.
 
You'd probably have British politics dominated a lot more by England i'd presume. Ireland, Scotland and Wales provide a good buffer for England if they do something stupid (Brexit would have gone through if not for Ireland and Scotland i'd presume). Granted Ireland has home rule so its not that different (and has its own parties after all, even if Fine Gael is basically associated with the tories and Sinn Fein with Labour).

Also without Ireland, less Gaelic and Celtic languages brought through the discourse and into mainstream British society and a push for a renewal of those if you don't have Irish Labour members bringing it up.

Other then that, maybe more tensions along the lines of religion or something (well, morso than now).
 
Does anyone think this could impact religion in the UK? Ireland has always made it a relevant,though peaceful(ish) issue in politics in the 20th century. Perhaps England might be as atheist as the American west is nowadays.

With a potentially weaker UK would we Singapore,Hong-Kong and Malta have been integrated too?

Perhaps we wouldn't have had the Indian mess in the 50s to deal with. The impact Ireland had on the Britian's imperial policy cannot be understated,imagine how weak we would be see if we couldn't even keep our closest colony(erm,sorry province) in good order,the bloody colonies would have been lost by the 40's.
 
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Can't see it. The Easter Rising would be your best bet, but it was poorly planned, poorly executed and poorly supported. People who talk about a successful rising usually fantasise about millions of German small arms somehow slipping the blockade, and choose to gloss over that when they were dragged out of the GPO the 'rebels' got pelted with rubbish and rotten fruit.

Britain played it particularly well by acting as if it was just a police matter and not one of 'rebellion', which would have given the plotters a status they in no way deserved. It would also have meant the authorities had no option but the death penalty, which would have turned a badly organised rabble into martyrs on a par with those of the 18th and 19th centuries.
Would a different British response really have led to calls for independence? They didn't get much support from the population of Dublin as you said and it the rising was replicated early outside of Dublin. But if it had would we have possibly seen a civil war break out between pro-British/Home Rule and anti-British/independence factions?

Depends on where you want to put the POD, after 1900 will be hard. Home Rule was on its way, there was consensus by 1901, the only issue was ulster. Pre, I suppose you could have the British botch the response to the famine. In terms of local British politics, depends. Ireland is a world of its own half the time, with the Irish Parliamentary Party and Sinn Fein holding most of the seats. But I suppose the Conservatives might be weaker without the extra seats from the Irish Unionist Party.

I suppose without Irish Home Rule, we might see Britain remain centralised.
You'd probably have British politics dominated a lot more by England i'd presume. Ireland, Scotland and Wales provide a good buffer for England if they do something stupid (Brexit would have gone through if not for Ireland and Scotland i'd presume). Granted Ireland has home rule so its not that different (and has its own parties after all, even if Fine Gael is basically associated with the tories and Sinn Fein with Labour).

Also without Ireland, less Gaelic and Celtic languages brought through the discourse and into mainstream British society and a push for a renewal of those if you don't have Irish Labour members bringing it up.

Other then that, maybe more tensions along the lines of religion or something (well, morso than now).

I thought the Conservatives were pretty opposed to HR up until after the rising? and how would that have affected the growth of other parties the IPP is basically a sister party to the liberals at this point with just more focus on Ireland and while the Conservatives do compete in Ireland its at best half hearted and I agree would be weaker without the IUP seats. Also I wouldn't say is Fine Gael is basically associated with tories its only because of the current leader they could just as easily swing back to the Liberals. How would an independent Ireland affect the young Labour Party as they would be deprived of their seats in Dublin and Belfast. And I agree that home rule may have been slower for the other home countries but I think it would still have happened and centralisation had to end at some point.

Does anyone think this could impact religion in the UK? Ireland has always made it a relevant,though peaceful(ish) issue in politics in the 20th century. Perhaps England might be as atheist as the American west is nowadays.

With a potentially weaker UK would we Singapore,Hong-Kong and Malta have been integrated too?

Perhaps we wouldn't have had the Indian mess in the 50s to deal with. The impact Ireland had on the Britian's imperial policy cannot be understated,imagine how weak we would be see if we couldn't even keep our closest colony(erm,sorry province) in good order,the bloody colonies would have been lost by the 40's.

If Ireland had gone independent I think it would have just become another dominion like Canada or Australia so I'm not sure how much impact it would have had. I think Singapore and Malta would have been integrated anyway unless something catastrophic happened, Britain is far too strong and would have remained so as to let them go and I think the only reason we still have Hong Kong is due to the divided nature of China.
 
Would a different British response really have led to calls for independence? They didn't get much support from the population of Dublin as you said and it the rising was replicated early outside of Dublin. But if it had would we have possibly seen a civil war break out between pro-British/Home Rule and anti-British/independence factions?

I think we're so used to how things are now that we forget how things were then. I mean, this was during the First World War. Tensions were pretty high anyway, the Home Rule bill had been delayed, which a lot of people saw as a bit of a con. There were rumours conscription was going to be extended to Ireland - the very fact that wasn't politically possible shows how tense things were. And let's not forget there were calls from the lunatic fringe in the Castle to literally carry the dying James Connolly on a stretcher to the Gaol, tie him to a chair and execute him before he died of his wounds.

I don't think it would have taken much to paint Connolly as a martyr and to revive interest in Independence.
 
It sure how well it would go. Ireland provides a disproportionate amount of actors, set designers, musicians, script writers, cartoonists, illustrators, etc to the UK. Yes, the Irish have lots of screen time, but the supporting jobs are where they shine. If they were independent would their programs not be on public broadcasts? What of funding? Guess this might leak over into Americans and Fenians having an even greater role in Ireland. Might be their second Cuba.
 
But TV programmes might be more adventurous and ready to portray serious social issues if it wasn't for the social conservatism of virtually all Irish MPs of whatever political stripe. Without them, would we have had Malcolm Muggeridge as Director-General or Dame Mary Whitehouse as Chair of the Board Of Governors?
And Irish MPs had to be socially conservative to be re-elected. Look at what happened when they weren't -Noel Browne lost his next election over contraception, Terence O'Neill de-selected for supporting decriminalisation of homosexuality. Garret Fitzgerald the only example of a socially liberal Irish MP who could get re-elected and only because he was keenly aware of exactly how far he could go.
 
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