DBWI: How to Save the PRC?

What would the world be like today if the People's Republic of China had survived past 1989? We've all heard the stories about the split in opinion on how to deal with the Tienanmen Square protesters and how it went straight up the chain of command, from the ranks of the military to Li Peng and Zhao Ziyang. In OTL the differences between the leaders of the Communist Party ended up being catastrophic, leading to the military receiving contradictory orders that led up to the various pro- and anti-Communism massacres across mainland China. Finally, we can't forget what many historians now see as the death knell of the PRC: the 38th Army and other units of the local PLA defecting and defending Tienanmen Square against their erstwhile comrades.

So what would the world look like today if the PRC still existed?

(OOC: This POD revolves around the intelligence that the US reportedly had on the protests at the time, which painted a picture that, debatably, ended up being markedly different than what actually went on in China.)
 
Hmmm...if we have an analogue between OTL and TTL, maybe the Soviet Union falls when the August Coup fails, and we have bitter ideological struggles between a communist Moscow government and a capitalist Leningrad government. More nukes than the Two Chinas have though, so it could get ugly. :eek: But that's probably for a different thread. :eek:

No North/South Communist/Capitalist divide in China doesn't necessarily mean a much more stable Far East, for sure. A China that cracks down on democracy would still be a serious threat to US interests in Taiwan and South Korea, as well as a continued threat to Russia in the Far East. Certainly the Red Army would have been reduced less in the last fifteen years if there was a serious conventional threat from China, instead of a communist successor state barely holding onto power in Manchuria and the vicinity of Beijing...

For naval enthusiasts, no 402-USS San Francisco incident off of Guam.
 
OOC: I find this ASB that the 38th group army and other local units would do such a thing.

OOC: Whether or not it's ASB is debatable. I have read that US intelligence had noted that the PLA hadn't supplied the 38th with any ammunition during the crackdown, so I suppose the idea was at least out there.
 
OOC: I find this ASB that the 38th group army and other local units would do such a thing.

OOC: The 38th withdrew, and the 27th and 28th were sent in to take back the city. It was said that the 38th torched their own vehicles, and joined the protests. The 27th came in and blasted them apart, killing God-knows how many. I figure if the 38th had been given ammo, they might well have fought the 27th and 28th armies.
 
What would the world be like today if the People's Republic of China had survived past 1989? We've all heard the stories about the split in opinion on how to deal with the Tienanmen Square protesters and how it went straight up the chain of command, from the ranks of the military to Li Peng and Zhao Ziyang. In OTL the differences between the leaders of the Communist Party ended up being catastrophic, leading to the military receiving contradictory orders that led up to the various pro- and anti-Communism massacres across mainland China. Finally, we can't forget what many historians now see as the death knell of the PRC: the 38th Army and other units of the local PLA defecting and defending Tienanmen Square against their erstwhile comrades.

So what would the world look like today if the PRC still existed?

(OOC: This POD revolves around the intelligence that the US reportedly had on the protests at the time, which painted a picture that, debatably, ended up being markedly different than what actually went on in China.)

IC: Sheesh, I'm willing to bet you only posted this upon hearing that Peking has fallen to the ROC Forces.:D

If you want the PRC to survive present-day, then the Communists should have finished the KMT off while they were in Taiwan in the 1950's. Or at least they should have done a better job screening and indoctrinating their officers in the PLA. Who would have thought that the KMT sneaked in sleeper agents as officers in the PLA during the four decades of relative peace before the Civil War resumed in the 90's, or they would have the backing of the British and the Portuguese in the late 90's when Hong-Kong and Macao were about to be turned over?

If you ask me, I'm glad that this Civil War is now finally coming to a close...well, unless Nanking forgets history, screws up royally and doesn't finish off the remaining Communist forces near the Korean border.
 
OOC: The 38th withdrew, and the 27th and 28th were sent in to take back the city. It was said that the 38th torched their own vehicles, and joined the protests. The 27th came in and blasted them apart, killing God-knows how many. I figure if the 38th had been given ammo, they might well have fought the 27th and 28th armies.

OOC: I know some of them joined in on the protests, but there were many more who stayed and followed orders, it's still ASB for the 38th army to fight. Perhaps only a few isolated soldiers coming to take on the government is possible, but no way will the majority of them come to fight.
 
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