DBWI: How long until German Colonies Gain Independence?

Since talks of independence in the Lebensraum steppe colonies are getting more and more frequent, how long will it be until they're granted it? Will they? I mean, Germany is in no position to deal with an independence war on the steppe, and suppressing them will kill Germany's relations with almost the rest of the world (except for die-hard allies).

OOC: Please don't ruin this thread. Don't say things that imply or suggest a wankish ASB scenario. Remember, a DBWI isn't a sign to get silly and implausible. It's a different way of looking at AH.
 
Since talks of independence in the Lebensraum steppe colonies are getting more and more frequent, how long will it be until they're granted it? Will they? I mean, Germany is in no position to deal with an independence war on the steppe, and suppressing them will kill Germany's relations with almost the rest of the world (except for die-hard allies).

OOC: Please don't ruin this thread. Don't say things that imply or suggest a wankish ASB scenario. Remember, a DBWI isn't a sign to get silly and implausible. It's a different way of looking at AH.

Well, one has to ask "how much is there left to give back"? Resettlement and past Pacification activities have more or less made the areas that are vying for independence the ones that Germany wasn't so concerned about. They are significant, no doubt, but the best parts of the former Ukraine were settled long ago, and same with other parts. If Germany keeps the parts that wish to stay, and give everything else independence, they would not only keep the best parts, but also make the new states de facto vassals from the start. A Poland with no sea and a corridor to the Ukraine is one that only exists at Germany's permission of trade.

On the other hand, there are calls from certain sectors of the world who want to see the total breakup of the German empire into a strong block, most notably Britain. I don't think the US and India care much as long as trade continues, though, and China's been pro-German for a good while.

Not sure what Russia is going to do, though; on one hand, Germany loses a lot of strength. On the other, the only people Eastern Europe hates/fears more than the Germans are the Russians. Not much good will come for Russia.
 
Of the colonies, Moskau is most likely to become independent first. They still have a significant Russian background, despite the efforts of the German Resettlement Program. They're also the most self-sufficient of the Reichskommissariates, and farthest from the German core territory. Ukraine would do the best in a revolt or rebellion; they're the strongest and most centralized of the Reichskommissariates, and probably the most modernised, too. Erich Koch's work has certainly payed off.
 
the problem I can see, is that the governors of the various states might not want to give up their mini-empires any time soon. troubling as it might be, I wouldn't put it past them to set up their own pro-german warlord states, refusing to give up control while further oppressing the remaining Slavs. let's all hope the plan goes through and this does not happen.
 
You guys are all missing the point.

After the "National Expansionism" of the 1960s, being German was as simple as proving fluency in German, swearing loyalty to the German State, and accepting all of the responsibilities of German Citizenship.

I mean, the atrocities of the 1940s and 50s are long behind us now, right?

By this point, Lebensraum has succeeded in a way that would probably send Hitler rolling in his grave--the Russians and Poles have turned into Germans. These "Slavs" you speak of now only represent 20% of the inhabitants of these environments--and their numbers are fading by the day.

In short, the deaths of 5 million german soldiers was not in vain--for the Neudeutsche contributions to Germany, as well as the great Lebensraum for the Hochdeutsche are plainly worth it.

Besides, most of those troublesome Slavs live on the Slavonic Steppes around Rodina (Former Kazakhstan), if the Slavs don't want to be Germans or work for Germans, they can go join their friends in their piles of filth.

Independence? No. We can and must annex them into our core homelands...
 
You guys are all missing the point.



I mean, the atrocities of the 1940s and 50s are long behind us now, right?
Behind you? How can 50 million bodies sudenly pass behind you? The world will never forget what you did in E.Europe and West Russia. Someday, you'll get your comeuppance, and the US will definitely back any independence movements on the steppes, if only to make you blood-stained Jerries weaker. Down with the Reich!
 
Behind you? How can 50 million bodies sudenly pass behind you? The world will never forget what you did in E.Europe and West Russia. Someday, you'll get your comeuppance, and the US will definitely back any independence movements on the steppes, if only to make you blood-stained Jerries weaker. Down with the Reich!

I'm sorry? Reality check, people.

The US Presidential candidates will go on denouncing us in their speeches. American National Socialists will be harassed by the FBI. There will be various demonstrations by their militant pacifists against them fighting our proxies in South Africa.

And that's it. When the day's over they'll still sign our trade agreements and buy our grain and our space technology. It's just that - to them the past is the past, and Eurasia is none of their business. They consider it victory enough to live on in "Peaceful Co-existence", as Chancellor Bormann put it. Especially now when the Reich Government shows signs of liberalisation.
 
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I don't know why people think that America will come to help. As stated above, when it comes down to it, it would be very unfavourable to the US economy to break off all trade with the Germans. IMO the most likely source of support will come from either Britain or Russia.

However, both these powers are only going to be able to offer mediocre support. Britain needs the backing of America to be able to do anything more than just gun smuggling into the Ukraine and Caucasia. And the Russian support will only be accepted in Moskau, since they have the largest non-German population.

To be honest, I think that these cries for independence will not come to complete fruition. The Ukraine and the Baltic’s might gain a form on internal autonomy, but nothing more. It is more favourable for the current geo-political position to be maintained.
 
And that's it. When the day's over they'll still sign our trade agreements and buy our grain and our space technology. It's just that - to them the past is the past, and Eurasia is none of their business. They consider it victory enough to live on in "Peaceful Co-existence", as Chancellor Bormann put it. Especially now when the Reich Government shows signs of liberalisation.

Agree with most of the stuff, but you know that Kanzler Siegfried Rommel has kind of a bleeding heart over all of this stuff--his father despised days of the 'people's war' in 1948, nearly resigned over the orders he was given at the time.

I think that the war has done a lot of good--200 Million Germans, New and High in the world, even though the Magyars and the Romanians have fought five wars for Transylvania I think we have finally created a superpower.

Besides, It was Bormann who issued the "National Expansionism" orders that gave the former "Untermenschen" an out--acculturate or be deported. I think although Hitler's radical ideas succeeded in carving out that space, his views on race (which were oddly disproven in the Racial Labs in the early 1950s) were rather insane. Jews and Aryans are extremely similar--so it is culture and language, not genetics, that make someone inferior. Indeed, I shudder at what would have happened if these orders were not issued.

As for the USA, they can get bent. We've got the bomb too, you belligerent Amis.
 
Agree with most of the stuff, but you know that Kanzler Siegfried Rommel has kind of a bleeding heart over all of this stuff--his father despised days of the 'people's war' in 1948, nearly resigned over the orders he was given at the time.

I think that the war has done a lot of good--200 Million Germans, New and High in the world, even though the Magyars and the Romanians have fought five wars for Transylvania I think we have finally created a superpower.

Besides, It was Bormann who issued the "National Expansionism" orders that gave the former "Untermenschen" an out--acculturate or be deported. I think although Hitler's radical ideas succeeded in carving out that space, his views on race (which were oddly disproven in the Racial Labs in the early 1950s) were rather insane. Jews and Aryans are extremely similar--so it is culture and language, not genetics, that make someone inferior. Indeed, I shudder at what would have happened if these orders were not issued.

As for the USA, they can get bent. We've got the bomb too, you belligerent Amis.

I don't know... Volksdeutsche and all, but I still think they let through too much Slavic blood. We can even see this in the statistics; school results are slowly going down, while juvenile crime is rising. I don't mean they're all bad, of course; my wife's half-Gothic (OOC: -Crimean/Ukrainian), but there are still the general tendencies after all. Ah, well...

Well, at least we don't have to stand the Jews anymore; it's good to know they, at least, are the Americans' problem. The Fuhrer really outsmarted the others then; no one else seriously thought they would buy them off us. FDR was many things, but generally not soft-hearted.
 
either Britain or Russia.

Get real. Britain's nothing compared to what it was in the forties, what with most of its empire gone, and Russia is literally nothing, campared or otherwise. They've got enough troubles with the fighting between Republican and Communist factions, so they've hardly the resources to win back the Leibensraum, or even make it slip from German grip.

I was suggesting that the Germans might just get tired of this peaceful protest and allow the Lebesraum colonies independence. They're still mostly Germans, so it's not like they'll be enemies of the Reich if freed.
 

~The Doctor~

I don't know... Volksdeutsche and all, but I still think they let through too much Slavic blood. We can even see this in the statistics; school results are slowly going down, while juvenile crime is rising. I don't mean they're all bad, of course; my wife's half-Gothic (OOC: -Crimean/Ukrainian), but there are still the general tendencies after all. Ah, well...

Perhaps the real reason is an adult population that does as little parenting as possible? What do you do, Canaris? For how many hours a day do you see your little ones?

I still can't believe some Germans still hold onto the outdated and disproven "Aryan Superiority". I'm a citizen of the Republic of Australia, and I have to tell you that our treatment of the Aborigines was horredous. For over a century the White Man saw them as Inferior, because they still lived as hunter-gatherers, and reacted badly when faced with the industrial society of Britain.

It's all BS. A mate of mine, Jason, he's a pure-blooded Aborigine. He's studying to be a Doctor. Slavs are as intelligent as Germans. The declining school results and increasing gang violence is not an ethnic issue.
 
Perhaps the real reason is an adult population that does as little parenting as possible? What do you do, Canaris? For how many hours a day do you see your little ones?

I still can't believe some Germans still hold onto the outdated and disproven "Aryan Superiority". I'm a citizen of the Republic of Australia, and I have to tell you that our treatment of the Aborigines was horredous. For over a century the White Man saw them as Inferior, because they still lived as hunter-gatherers, and reacted badly when faced with the industrial society of Britain.

It's all BS. A mate of mine, Jason, he's a pure-blooded Aborigine. He's studying to be a Doctor. Slavs are as intelligent as Germans. The declining school results and increasing gang violence is not an ethnic issue.

My children are all grown and successful; Heinrich is a Kapitänleutnant stationed in Bergen, Siegfried is a lawyer and Ulrika happily married. While they grew up, there was still much work at Naval Command (remember, this was before the détente), so I couldn't spend as much time with the family as I would have liked. Still, they had their mother and the nurses.

I'll be the first to agree that we Germans did some things in the East we shouldn't be proud of, and to be fair it's mostly the SS and assorted crackpots that still are. That Slavs in general are less disciplined and intelligent than Aryans does not automatically make them all bad people, and they definitely shouldn't have been treated like they were. As you said, there are individuals among them with natural abilities that rival those of most Germans, and they should not be wasted.

Instead, they should have been left to their agriculture, hopefully adapting and modernising under our protection, being slowly assimilated into mainstream European society. I'm glad Chancellor Bormann eventually stuck with that approach, even if I feel he was otherwise too soft on the Amis.
 
Got to agree with this sort of stuff.

The whole attitude of the 40s and early 50s was way off: They aren't German, so they must die. Bormann's idea of "they can become German" seems much closer than the actual truth.

And what is there really to celebrate about the Slavs in the first place? Even the name means "Slave". Known for their powerful Vodka and their cavalry traditions, they seem out of time and out of place. Besides, we all know the history books, that Stalin's purges made him the worst monster of his time. It doesn't exonerate Hitler and Himmler's conduct, but this is what the Slavs were doing at the time.

Hard to believe, though, that after 45 years of Detente and 15 years of warfare of decreasing intensity, we've got more in Common with those Amis than I'd ever imagined--colonized the heartland of a continent, civilized the barbarians living here, spread our culture around the world and created a new order better than the last. Yes the 40s-50s were dark times, but Kanzler Bormann reversed many of the worst actions of the state. Kanzler Rommel's government has strong democratic leanings and a long capitalist transition. Giant Freeways make travel through formally difficult Ostland easier than ever before. Even the Slavs in far off Rodina are better for the loss of their Man of Steel and his replacement, Laventi Beria, another proven Purge maniac.

With people like Stalin and Beria in control, its obvious why the Slavs can't run a state--they'll kill themselves. It was hard to say so at the time, but we did them a great favor. There are weird quirks, to be sure (Slavic Women often turn German when they marry) and such, but its considerably better than before.
 
Look Who Is Talking

Hearing any American or American sympathizer criticize the Reich is really laughable. I think the world knows how American "human rights" look to the native inhabitants of North America. Where are they? Did they all go on a permanent vacation?

And then of course look at the lovely way the Americans have treated their dark-skinned subjects. How many died on the way to slavery?

The American rhetoric of equality is superficially appealing to fools. But in reality, both Germany and America know that not all people are equal, and both have acted accordingly. We Germans are just more honest about it.
 
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