DBWI: Hitler not assassinated in 1932

What if Hitler wasn't assassinated by a Communist in 1932? Would he eventually made chancellor? What would have been his policies? Despite his martryr status the Nazi party fell apart without him and devolved into warring cliques. Could Hitler kept them together? After Hitler's assassination the warring between facists and communists heated back up and got so worrying to the rest of Europe that stabalization loans were given to the Weimer Republic stablizing it. Would this have happened? Of course, it didn't hurt that the far right and the far left killed so many of each other off that their numbers plummeted both due to the number of the deaths and , more importantly, large numbers of people being scared off and not wanting to be killed in the fighting.
 
Sorry but I had to look this guy up on Wiki to know what you were talking about. Frankly the idea of him becoming Chancellor of Germany seems like it should be in ASB.
 
Sorry but I had to look this guy up on Wiki to know what you were talking about. Frankly the idea of him becoming Chancellor of Germany seems like it should be in ASB.

You would think so but he DID lead the biggest right wing party in Germany.
 

MSZ

Banned
What if Hitler wasn't assassinated by a Communist in 1932? Would he eventually made chancellor? What would have been his policies? Despite his martryr status the Nazi party fell apart without him and devolved into warring cliques. Could Hitler kept them together? After Hitler's assassination the warring between facists and communists heated back up and got so worrying to the rest of Europe that stabalization loans were given to the Weimer Republic stablizing it. Would this have happened? Of course, it didn't hurt that the far right and the far left killed so many of each other off that their numbers plummeted both due to the number of the deaths and , more importantly, large numbers of people being scared off and not wanting to be killed in the fighting.

Well, he was a big shot at the time of his death with his NSDAP being at the time the largest party in the Reichstag. And he was among the "hawks" of Germany, seeking to resist the Versailles Treaty rather than "collaborate" with the victorious powers and seek an accomodation with them like the SPD did. Him making chancellor seems quite possible, creating a coalition with the DNVP and/or Zentrum. But given the situation Germany was in, would he be able to keep that "resist the Versailles" attitude? He did get so many votes in part because there was a strong sentiment among the Germans that it was what ought to be done; but outright dismissal of the Versailles could bring a lot of heat down on Germany. So it would not get those stabilization loans. Nor would the Young Plan be amended in Germany's favour. A "hawk" in the German government would not really help the Weimar Republic, it worked hard to get back the credibility it lost in the Great War, a "German Poincare" could terminate all that political capital previous governments aquired.
 
What if Hitler wasn't assassinated by a Communist in 1932? Would he eventually made chancellor? What would have been his policies? Despite his martryr status the Nazi party fell apart without him and devolved into warring cliques. Could Hitler kept them together? After Hitler's assassination the warring between facists and communists heated back up and got so worrying to the rest of Europe that stabalization loans were given to the Weimer Republic stablizing it. Would this have happened? Of course, it didn't hurt that the far right and the far left killed so many of each other off that their numbers plummeted both due to the number of the deaths and , more importantly, large numbers of people being scared off and not wanting to be killed in the fighting.

It's very possible, I think. Harry Turtledove wrote a few books on the subject back in the '80s and '90s, including a very well received AH novel.

Anyhow, I don't think Hitler's survival would have butterflied WWII; the Weimar Republic only lasted until 1935 anyhow despite the attempts at stabilization, and when the crap did hit the blades, guess who took over? None other than Heinrich Himmler, and Reinhard Heydrich, formerly of the NSDAP. And when Germany invaded Poland in September 1938, that was the end of the road for peace in Europe.
And what happened to many of the pro-Weimar dissidents was very tragic: Over 2 million people died in Rudolf Hess's 're-socialization' camps( including over half a million anti-establishment Jewish citizens), not to mention the millions more who were hounded by the Secret Police. And I have no doubts that Hitler would have been far worse, had he lived.

On the other hand, though, we probably wouldn't have had nearly as much pro-German sympathy as we did here in America after the war IOTL, and in turn, anti-Communist activities might not have gotten as extreme as they did in the 1950s(one of the key supporters of Joe McCarthy was a right-wing Wisconsin industrialist known for pro-German leanings).

One of the best books on the subject was written by a Dutch professor by the name of Anne Frank, who's done a lot of marvelous historical research over the years, including on this period.....though I've forgotten the title's name at the moment.
 
It's very possible, I think. Harry Turtledove wrote a few books on the subject back in the '80s and '90s, including a very well received AH novel.

Anyhow, I don't think Hitler's survival would have butterflied WWII; the Weimar Republic only lasted until 1935 anyhow despite the attempts at stabilization, and when the crap did hit the blades, guess who took over? None other than Heinrich Himmler, and Reinhard Heydrich, formerly of the NSDAP. And when Germany invaded Poland in September 1938, that was the end of the road for peace in Europe.
And what happened to many of the pro-Weimar dissidents was very tragic: Over 2 million people died in Rudolf Hess's 're-socialization' camps( including over half a million anti-establishment Jewish citizens), not to mention the millions more who were hounded by the Secret Police. And I have no doubts that Hitler would have been far worse, had he lived.

On the other hand, though, we probably wouldn't have had nearly as much pro-German sympathy as we did here in America after the war IOTL, and in turn, anti-Communist activities might not have gotten as extreme as they did in the 1950s(one of the key supporters of Joe McCarthy was a right-wing Wisconsin industrialist known for pro-German leanings).

One of the best books on the subject was written by a Dutch professor by the name of Anne Frank, who's done a lot of marvelous historical research over the years, including on this period.....though I've forgotten the title's name at the moment.

True, but when Germany did invade Poland in 1938 it was in such a shape the war didn't last very long. WWII lasted only 1 1/2 years as the Germans quickly got bogged down in France and invaded by France 6 months later. It was only due to irregular warfare that the German government lasted a little less than a year after that. Give Germany 5 more years and it might have had a real military that was capable of fighting a war.
 
You would think so but he DID lead the biggest right wing party in Germany.

Yeah but given the volatility of the electorate I doubt that would have lasted. Even if it did I can't believe he could have been quite the loon Wiki makes him out to be and still gotten to be Chancellor. So since to get the job he would have to have been quite a different character it probably wouldn't make that much difference.

Some people really get hung up on this notion that some crank with big ideas could have been a new Caesar or Napoleon, conquering all of Europe before meeting a melodramatic end. Hitler wasn't going to get knifed in the back in the senate, or wreck his armies in a Russian winter for that matter, history just doesn't work that neatly.
 
True, but when Germany did invade Poland in 1938 it was in such a shape the war didn't last very long. WWII lasted only 1 1/2 years as the Germans quickly got bogged down in France and invaded by France 6 months later. It was only due to irregular warfare that the German government lasted a little less than a year after that. Give Germany 5 more years and it might have had a real military that was capable of fighting a war.

No, it lasted longer than that....in fact, you seem to be confusing the end of WWII with the assassination of the Danish Prime Minister. WWII didn't end until July 1945(the U.S. dropped it's atom bombs on Hiroshima & Niigata only a few weeks later).

@Garrison: Believe me, it was very possible. In fact, Hitler already had plenty of backers of his own, many of whom were some of the wealthiest men in Germany. All that happened when Hitler died is that many of these same people just switched to Heydrich and Himmler, that's all.
 
No, it lasted longer than that....in fact, you seem to be confusing the end of WWII with the assassination of the Danish Prime Minister. WWII didn't end until July 1945(the U.S. dropped it's atom bombs on Hiroshima & Niigata only a few weeks later).

@Garrison: Believe me, it was very possible. In fact, Hitler already had plenty of backers of his own, many of whom were some of the wealthiest men in Germany. All that happened when Hitler died is that many of these same people just switched to Heydrich and Himmler, that's all.

OOC: This makes no sense! How in God's name is Germany ready 1 year earlier with 3 years less preparation?
 
OOC: This makes no sense! How in God's name is Germany ready 1 year earlier with 3 years less preparation?

OOC: How does WWII lasting only a year make sense? Also, it was only 2 years less, not 3.

IC: None of the other major powers saw it coming until it was too late, that was the main problem. Germany might not have built up as much as it could, but it was enough. And given that Neville Chamberlain was PM up until Nov. 1939, there was nothing Britain could do about it, until Churchill replaced him. And then it took the U.S. until the fall of 1941 to get involved and that was only after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and raided the Aleutians that July.
 
OOC: How does WWII lasting only a year make sense? Also, it was only 2 years less, not 3.

IC: None of the other major powers saw it coming until it was too late, that was the main problem. Germany might not have built up as much as it could, but it was enough. And given that Neville Chamberlain was PM up until Nov. 1939, there was nothing Britain could do about it, until Churchill replaced him. And then it took the U.S. until the fall of 1941 to get involved and that was only after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and raided the Aleutians that July.

OOC: Two years less prep. Germany almost certainly not having enough time to grab both Austria and CZ such a short time after the Nazis grab power.
 
OOC: Two years less prep. Germany almost certainly not having enough time to grab both Austria and CZ such a short time after the Nazis grab power.

OOC: I didn't mention Czechoslovakia, though, and I assumed that the Germans might be able to annex Austria with popular support, similar to OTL; possibly rallying some around the dead Hitler, making him out to be a martyr, or something like that.

IC: CZ didn't get annexed until August 1939, though, and was already starting to fall apart then.
 
Well it has to be said the big winners in the Second Great War were the Soviet Union & Fascist Italy. The Genoa Pact between Rome & Moscow resulted because both felt frozen out by the main belligerents, resulting in one of the most astounding political turnarounds ever.

Technically they fought on the same side as the Franco-British Alliance, but the democracies wernt happy about their expansionism, even if they couldn't prevent it. The Soviets seized the Baltic States, Finland, Eastern Poland along with East Turkestan later and despite evolving into a semi-democratic regime they show no signs of ever giving them up regardless of dissent or international condemnation
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The Italians for their part took hunks of land from Yugoslavia & play fast & loose in the Balkans to this day...


Still at least the Japanese militarists were taken down a few pegs by everyone, once the war in Europe was over. After they tried pulling more stunts in China & elsewhere.
 
OOC: I didn't mention Czechoslovakia, though, and I assumed that the Germans might be able to annex Austria with popular support, similar to OTL; possibly rallying some around the dead Hitler, making him out to be a martyr, or something like that.

IC: CZ didn't get annexed until August 1939, though, and was already starting to fall apart then.

OOC: Without CZ the Nazis lose a whole lot of tanks. A lot of Nazi tanks were Chech built.
 
Well it has to be said the big winners in the Second Great War were the Soviet Union & Fascist Italy. The Genoa Pact between Rome & Moscow resulted because both felt frozen out by the main belligerents, resulting in one of the most astounding political turnarounds ever.

Technically they fought on the same side as the Franco-British Alliance, but the democracies wernt happy about their expansionism, even if they couldn't prevent it. The Soviets seized the Baltic States, Finland, Eastern Poland along with East Turkestan later and despite evolving into a semi-democratic regime they show no signs of ever giving them up regardless of dissent or international condemnation.

The Italians for their part took hunks of land from Yugoslavia & play fast & loose in the Balkans to this day...

Still at least the Japanese militarists were taken down a few pegs by everyone, once the war in Europe was over. After they tried pulling more stunts in China & elsewhere.

True enough and no one expected that.That was particularly true about Italy but I think without Soviet backing they wouldn't have gained much.
 

Deleted member 1487

It's very possible, I think. Harry Turtledove wrote a few books on the subject back in the '80s and '90s, including a very well received AH novel.

Anyhow, I don't think Hitler's survival would have butterflied WWII; the Weimar Republic only lasted until 1935 anyhow despite the attempts at stabilization, and when the crap did hit the blades, guess who took over? None other than Heinrich Himmler, and Reinhard Heydrich, formerly of the NSDAP. And when Germany invaded Poland in September 1938, that was the end of the road for peace in Europe.

OOC:
Okay, how the hell does this happen logically? Hitler's death would have splintered the NSDAP, Heydrich would not have had much influence, as his boss, Heinrich Himmler, wasn't popular and achieved power because of Hitler. This is total nonsense.

Ernst Röhm might have started a civil war if Hitler was assassinated, but that's about the extent of it. He would lose.

By 1933 the Schleicher government started major spending and was setting up the Autobahn project. By 1935 Germany would be economically stabilized, as Hitler pretty much appropriated the projects that Schleicher and the Conservatives were planning and funding. Weimar wouldn't topple it if made it to 1935.
 
OOC:
Okay, how the hell does this happen logically? Hitler's death would have splintered the NSDAP, Heydrich would not have had much influence, as his boss, Heinrich Himmler, wasn't popular and achieved power because of Hitler. This is total nonsense.

Ernst Röhm might have started a civil war if Hitler was assassinated, but that's about the extent of it. He would lose.

By 1933 the Schleicher government started major spending and was setting up the Autobahn project. By 1935 Germany would be economically stabilized, as Hitler pretty much appropriated the projects that Schleicher and the Conservatives were planning and funding. Weimar wouldn't topple it if made it to 1935.

OOC: Yes, but this assumes, for whatever reason, that the stabilization failed somehow.

IC: Guess you haven't read up then. There was another crash in April 1934 after a number of European banks failed; that's a major part of the reason why the stabilization failed.

Also, on topic, I wonder what the fate of the Volkswagen would have been?
Porsche and his occasional collaborator Josef Ganz became pretty close in late 1933 and the first few prototypes were constructed by 1935.
Of course, we know that in April 1936, Heydrich and company ordered the seizure of the Volkswagen plant and the conversion of the Wolfsburg factory into an arms manufacturing facility, which caused its introduction to be put off for just over a decade(the two fled Germany soon after); but I've always wanted to know: if Hitler had lived, could he have taken interest in the Beetle? He was kind of a Henry Ford aficionado, after all, and it is true that the Beetle eventually became known as the "German Model T".
 
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