DBWI: Going To Al-Andalus

So, I'm going to Al-Andalus. I hold an American passport, have an Eurailpass with me, the Lonely Planet, Rough Guides, and Rick Steves guidebooks to Al-Andalus, and two weeks there. What should I see and what things should I keep in mind while there?
 

Keenir

Banned
So, I'm going to Al-Andalus. I hold an American passport, have an Eurailpass with me, the Lonely Planet, Rough Guides, and Rick Steves guidebooks to Al-Andalus, and two weeks there. What should I see and what things should I keep in mind while there?

if you've got all those worthies, why ask us?
 
Well, old Qurtuba [Cordoba] is always nice for a visit-the Grand Mosque, all the wonderful Ummayyad architecture, the Reconquest Monument, celebrating the retaking of western al-Andalus (with Ottoman help, though don't mention that :) ) in 1498*. Of course, one shouldn't forget Ishbiliyya [Seville] either, and whatever you do, go to Gharnaata [Granada] and see the al-Hamra, the palace of the Emirs during the years of exile (~1240 to 1498-its often forgotten, by Andalusians especially, that the place was almost taken over by the Spanish, and quite probably would have been had it not been for he Ottomans)*

* OOC (I'm coming from my Tartary TL, in my sig, where the Ottomans are way more successful than OTL)
 
Well, it's a pretty tolerant place - it has a long history as a refuge for people on the outs with the Spanish government (Jews, Protestants, unconverted Muslims, seekers of democracy) and is certainly no Iran or Aceh. Still, it's not the New Netherlands either, and people frown on the propositioning of women or a lack of respect for the religious institutions. Just be polite and watch what other people do and you should be fine.

Alcohol is readily available at a number of Christian and Jewish-run bars, stores, and restaurants, but consumption of alcohol in public places or offering it to an islamic minor is illegal. Marihuana and quat are legal (although public quat-chewing is considered gauche), but heroin, cocaine and other hard drugs are persecuted every bit as fiercly as back home.

Some of the major cities are very multi-cultural: as one of the richest Arab countries, and connected to Africa by its posessiona around Rabat and Tangier, Al-Andalus has immigrants from all over west and north Africa, and there are a remarkable variety of restaurants (although it's best to know a bit of Arabic so you know what you're ordering).

If you're from Castilian America, either make that clear or avoid speaking Espanol in public, if you want to avoid hostile stares and perhaps being to some extent shunned: although the last war was ninety years ago, Spaniards and Al-Andalusi, after a millenium plus of warfare, still don't get along very well, and any Castilian tourist in Al-Anadalus is looked upon with a certain degree of suspicion. Admittedly, this is mainly a problem among the Al-Andalusi equivalent of rednecks: the better-off and better-educated locals are more tolerant of Castilians, although they are often a bit concescending towards their "barbaric" neighbors to the North.

Bruce
 
Well, it's a pretty tolerant place - it has a long history as a refuge for people on the outs with the Spanish government (Jews, Protestants, unconverted Muslims, seekers of democracy) and is certainly no Iran or Aceh. Still, it's not the New Netherlands either, and people frown on the propositioning of women or a lack of respect for the religious institutions. Just be polite and watch what other people do and you should be fine.

Alcohol is readily available at a number of Christian and Jewish-run bars, stores, and restaurants, but consumption of alcohol in public places or offering it to an islamic minor is illegal. Marihuana and quat are legal (although public quat-chewing is considered gauche), but heroin, cocaine and other hard drugs are persecuted every bit as fiercly as back home.

Some of the major cities are very multi-cultural: as one of the richest Arab countries, and connected to Africa by its posessiona around Rabat and Tangier, Al-Andalus has immigrants from all over west and north Africa, and there are a remarkable variety of restaurants (although it's best to know a bit of Arabic so you know what you're ordering).

If you're from Castilian America, either make that clear or avoid speaking Espanol in public, if you want to avoid hostile stares and perhaps being to some extent shunned: although the last war was ninety years ago, Spaniards and Al-Andalusi, after a millenium plus of warfare, still don't get along very well, and any Castilian tourist in Al-Anadalus is looked upon with a certain degree of suspicion. Admittedly, this is mainly a problem among the Al-Andalusi equivalent of rednecks: the better-off and better-educated locals are more tolerant of Castilians, although they are often a bit concescending towards their "barbaric" neighbors to the North.

Bruce

Well, I'm from the United States of America and of Vietnamese and Chinese descent, so, no, I don't speak Spanish, just English and Vietnamese. What do the Al-Andalusi think about us and president Barack Obama? How about out system of democracy (Yeah, I can just read the stuff in my guidebooks, but I want to hear AH.com's take on this)?

Also, Rick Steves in his latest guidebook to Andalucia says that you should avoid trying to use the U-38 freeway in Ishbiliyya, but Lonely Planet says it's a good idea to use it. Which one is true? (I've had good experience with both series, so I don't know why they're at odds over this issue).
 
Well, I'm from the United States of America and of Vietnamese and Chinese descent, so, no, I don't speak Spanish, just English and Vietnamese. What do the Al-Andalusi think about us and president Barack Obama? How about out system of democracy (Yeah, I can just read the stuff in my guidebooks, but I want to hear AH.com's take on this)?

Al-Andalus is pretty democratic itself nowadays, with a Parliament and and an independent judiciary, although they think the separation of church and state thing is pretty wierd. As for Obama, they certainly find him a relief after his predecessor, but you may get asked some sharp questions as to why the US hasn't pulled it's troops out of Tibet or Siam yet: most Muslims don't share US fears re radical Buddhism.

Bruce
 
Also, Rick Steves in his latest guidebook to Andalucia says that you should avoid trying to use the U-38 freeway in Ishbiliyya, but Lonely Planet says it's a good idea to use it. Which one is true? (I've had good experience with both series, so I don't know why they're at odds over this issue).

Anyone know the answer to the freeway question and have any other suggestions where to go and what do do?
 
I was in Qurtuba briefly last year. The architecture is beautiful, I just picked random areas and walked around. The marihuana hash and hookah is great, if you're into that. There's a great smokeshop called the Caliph about two blocks east of the train station.

Anyone know the answer to the freeway question and have any other suggestions where to go and what do do?

Take the train. They have a great rail system.
 
I was in Qurtuba briefly last year. The architecture is beautiful, I just picked random areas and walked around. The marihuana hash and hookah is great, if you're into that. There's a great smokeshop called the Caliph about two blocks east of the train station.

Take the train. They have a great rail system.

Rick Steves and some of my friends say that it's hard to get out to many countryside attractions without using a car...
 
Rick Steves and some of my friends say that it's hard to get out to many countryside attractions without using a car...

Come on, no answer? If you guys can keep on wringing out detailed posts on Doctor What eating some sandwich that was really good, why not answer my questions? :(
 
Also, Rick Steves in his latest guidebook to Andalucia says that you should avoid trying to use the U-38 freeway in Ishbiliyya, but Lonely Planet says it's a good idea to use it. Which one is true? (I've had good experience with both series, so I don't know why they're at odds over this issue).

Well, put it this way - in Puèrto Rico, where I'm from, we have two types of autovía (motorway): the radiales or freeways and the expressos or expressways. We also have carretaras naţionales primarias that function as our trunk roads and carretaras naţionales secundarias as our bannered routes. Castile, by contrast, has both autopistas (motorways) and autovías (dual carriageways, though more like expressways), with the exception that the autopistas are run by the central government and the autovías are run by the regions.

In Andaluzía, by contrast, their "freeways" (which is a bad usage of an English word) are more like Castilian autovías with Puerto Rican levels of traffic. You know how the old joke regarding Puerto Rican drivers is that green means go, yellow means go faster, and red means speed? Well, in Andaluzía, that joke applies, but compared to Puerto Rican traffic, Andalusian traffic is much more hectic. Once you're out in the countryside it's not bad, but in the cities you have to be careful (hence, their public transit is good). As for Route 38: in many sections it's easy to drive on since it's one of the original highways to be built. However, note that in Andalusia, the letter indicates road grade and it changes constantly - just use the route number as a (somewhat reliable) guide. However, the U-38 is no freeway in any sense of the word - that section in Seville is one of the newer sections of road and the standard of that road is similar to Puerto Rican carretaras naţionales primarias instead of Castilian autovía standard equivalency it's mainly a bypass of the older IC-38. The IC-38 I wouldn't mind; the U-38, well, just be prepared for long lines of traffic even outside peak hours. In this case, it's because Andaluzía has no consistent road classification and numbering system (hence why I say route numbers are partly reliable).

Me, I go to Andaluzía once in a while for business purposes, and I always prefer the rail system, and as a Puerto Rican, I have had no problems whatsoever there (they think we sound like the Galicians, and since Andaluzía has good relations with Galiza, that's a good sign). The entire country is beautiful, but I prefer Málaqah (or Málaga, as I would write it) - all the charm of the other big cities with the beauty of the sea, and the best part is that it's largely untouched by tourism (so you don't have to feel like you're in a rush, and plus it's more "authentic" and more "homey"). A couple of decades ago, an old theatre from the Roman era was rediscovered and excavated by archaeologists, and it's a sight to see - it rivals the Greco-Roman theatre in Epidavros. Málaqah almost reminds me of, well, my hometown of San Germàn - the old city is very compact and easy to navigate, and the city is very safe to be in. Plus, from my experience, due to the fact that tourists haven't flooded Málaqah yet, once you are in the city the locals treat you as if you're family - which to me is a huge positive.
 
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Rick Steves and some of my friends say that it's hard to get out to many countryside attractions without using a car...

Actually, it depends on where you're going. most of Andaluzía, including the major cities (except Jayyán/Jaén - which IIRC is being rectified with the new high-speed rail service), are well served by the rail network. There, you really don't need to use a car - only if you're going out to the more remote areas, such as Eastern Andaluzía, would you need to use a car (and Rick Steves does have a tendency to prefer the remote areas, hence his bias). Plus, tickets are ridiculously cheap - a second-class one-way ticket costs only 90 qirsh (about PR£1,50 last time I checked the conversion rates), which is a very good deal in my book.
 
Well, put it this way - in Puèrto Rico, where I'm from, we have two types of autovía (motorway): the radiales or freeways and the expressos or expressways. We also have carretaras naţionales primarias that function as our trunk roads and carretaras naţionales secundarias as our bannered routes. Castile, by contrast, has both autopistas (motorways) and autovías (dual carriageways, though more like expressways), with the exception that the autopistas are run by the central government and the autovías are run by the regions.

In Andaluzía, by contrast, their "freeways" (which is a bad usage of an English word) are more like Castilian autovías with Puerto Rican levels of traffic. You know how the old joke regarding Puerto Rican drivers is that green means go, yellow means go faster, and red means speed? Well, in Andaluzía, that joke applies, but compared to Puerto Rican traffic, Andalusian traffic is much more hectic. Once you're out in the countryside it's not bad, but in the cities you have to be careful (hence, their public transit is good). As for Route 38: in many sections it's easy to drive on since it's one of the original highways to be built. However, note that in Andalusia, the letter indicates road grade and it changes constantly - just use the route number as a (somewhat reliable) guide. However, the U-38 is no freeway in any sense of the word - that section in Seville is one of the newer sections of road and the standard of that road is similar to Puerto Rican carretaras naţionales primarias instead of Castilian autovía standard equivalency it's mainly a bypass of the older IC-38. The IC-38 I wouldn't mind; the U-38, well, just be prepared for long lines of traffic even outside peak hours. In this case, it's because Andaluzía has no consistent road classification and numbering system (hence why I say route numbers are partly reliable).

Me, I go to Andaluzía once in a while for business purposes, and I always prefer the rail system, and as a Puerto Rican, I have had no problems whatsoever there (they think we sound like the Galicians, and since Andaluzía has good relations with Galiza, that's a good sign). The entire country is beautiful, but I prefer Málaqah (or Málaga, as I would write it) - all the charm of the other big cities with the beauty of the sea, and the best part is that it's largely untouched by tourism (so you don't have to feel like you're in a rush, and plus it's more "authentic"). It almost reminds me of, well, my hometown of San Germàn.

Actually, it depends on where you're going. most of Andaluzía, including the major cities (except Jayyán/Jaén - which IIRC is being rectified with the new high-speed rail service), are well served by the rail network. There, you really don't need to use a car - only if you're going out to the more remote areas, such as Eastern Andaluzía, would you need to use a car (and Rick Steves does have a tendency to prefer the remote areas, hence his bias). Plus, tickets are ridiculously cheap - a second-class one-way ticket costs only 90 qirsh (about PR£1,50 last time I checked the conversion rates), which is a very good deal in my book.

Thanks there, through you really didn't need to post all that! a few sentences works very well, indeed! :p
 
Thanks there, through you really didn't need to post all that! a few sentences works very well, indeed! :p

Always welcome to help. I've been to Andaluzía so many times that I can almost blend in as a native - it reminds me a lot of Puèrto Rico (without Puèrto Rico's British elements) and thus it is easy for me to navigate. Yes, my own country is beautiful, but I like Andaluzía a lot.
 
One note: some tourist guides provide lists of local idioms that are seriously outdated. For instance, the term "vizzie" is now generally applied to all foreigners, regardless of ethnicity, and rarely conveys any derogatory intent.
 
Always welcome to help. I've been to Andaluzía so many times that I can almost blend in as a native - it reminds me a lot of Puèrto Rico (without Puèrto Rico's British elements) and thus it is easy for me to navigate. Yes, my own country is beautiful, but I like Andaluzía a lot.

BTW, are there are rail services in Andalucia that don't accept the Eurailpass? I have one, but both the Eurailpass and Rick Steves' guide to European Rail Deals sites are down right now, so I can't check. If it helps, I have a Youth second-class two-month pass.

If I go during Ramadan, which services will be shut down?

Also, how goes the campaign in Puerto Rico to become a republic instead of recognizing the British queen as head of state? A Puerto Rican friend here in the United States of America supports a yes vote, so I wondered what your take on it would be.
 
One note: some tourist guides provide lists of local idioms that are seriously outdated. For instance, the term "vizzie" is now generally applied to all foreigners, regardless of ethnicity, and rarely conveys any derogatory intent.

Well, all my guidebooks (Lonely Planet, Rough Guides, and Rick Steves) were updated in 2009, so everything's good. What other guidebooks would you recommend, BTW?
 
Not a guidebook as such, but Ernest Hemingway's "What the Caliph Ate" is a wonderful basis for a self guided tour. While most of the neighborhoods he described so vividly have been refurbished over the years, it's not hard to see the original brickwork peeking through. And you can still find the independent cantinas serving as he put it "a thousand sherbets, each as orange and glorious as a sunset, and each as unique". You'll have to imagine the flying bullets, though.

Some have said similar things about Salman Rushdie's "Facing Mecca Down a Crooked Street", but i find it a bit too snide.
 
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