DBWI: Germany is divided between the USSR and the ALLIES

yeetboy

Banned
Hear me out, an earlier invasion of Europe by the allies allows them to occupy more territory during World War 2. Instead of Germany being divided into multiple SSRs, it is divided into a Capitalist West and a Communist East.

How does this impact the Cold War? What would Europe look like today?
 

Deleted member 94680

How would the Allies even be able to get to Europe that early?

IOTL the Allied landings in Italy were essentially a giant feint in late ‘44 to draw off German troops slated for the counterattack against the last Russian push of the year.

IMHO, we were lucky to get Stalin to agree to the Allied occupation of Southern Italy and the Roman Free State with the situation as it was. Obviously, we had the Far East wrapped up, but in the long run it looks like we got the worse side of the strategic bargain.
 
Apparently, FDR wanted decolonization and Truman originally supported, but Soviet domination in Europe caused US foreign policy to change from promoting decolonization to promoting tinpot dictators and minority rule states. Assuming there's a West Germany, that also assumes that DeGaulle's rule returns to the mainland, and this would completely butterfly away the so called Colonial War that pitted the US against the SU for decades, but never in direct conflict. There would be no ironically named Free France years, where DeGaulle ruled Africa with an iron fist, because a united France would no doubt begin decolonization. Free France was the model of minority rule that was used in Indochina when the minority declared independence, and that lasted up until the end of the Indochinese Jungle War in the late 70s. We even still have other minority rule states in Africa, carved out of the former British lands when the mainland fell into the Soviet Sphere, like Kenya, Rhodesia-Nyasa and South Africa, which are almost entirely propped up by the USA. Don't even get me started on the African Royalty phenomena, where the US supported a new wave of Napoleonesque dictators and self-proclaimed emperors, creating the modern day Kingdom of Zaire and the Central African Empire among others.

Without the Colonial War, there would no doubt be a third world war. With a Europe split between east and west, conflict would be inevitable. Nukes would fly within 20 years, if not sooner. Despite the horrors of minority rule and US backed dictators, the conflicts being limited to proxy wars no doubt prevented total nuclear annihilation.
 
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BigBlueBox

Banned
Assuming there's a West Germany, that also assumes that DeGaulle's rule returns to the mainland, and this would completely butterfly away the so called Colonial War that pitted the US against the SU for decades, but never in direct conflict. There would be no ironically named Free France years, where DeGaulle ruled Africa with an iron fist, because a united France would no doubt begin decolonization. Free France was the model of minority rule that was used in Indochina when the minority declared independence, and that lasted up until the end of the Indochinese Bush War in the late 70s.
I don’t know where you got that nonsense idea that France would have decolonized if it reclaimed the metropole. They would just double down even harder with the extra resources of the metropole. The French were expelled from Indochina in 1957 - that rump state in the Paracels that held out until 1978 was a joke.
 
I don't believe in total nuclear anihilation between a Soviet Union and United States - both countries were not driven by genocide-lovers. Soviet collapse is what I think would happen. In ourt timeline, Soviet Union has a buffer zone of Poland, Germans SSRs, Benelux countries, North Italy and France, protecting them from invasion. Conventional attack is impossible - you would have defeat combined armies of almost whole Europe and half of Asia to even cross the Soviet border. If the West-East line was placed in Germany, Soviet Union would be forced to expand their military forces. More and more money would be wasted on non-profitable arms' industry. By early 2010s ATL Soviet Union would have collapsed.
 

Deleted member 94680

I don't believe in total nuclear anihilation between a Soviet Union and United States - both countries were not driven by genocide-lovers. Soviet collapse is what I think would happen. In ourt timeline, Soviet Union has a buffer zone of Poland, Germans SSRs, Benelux countries, North Italy and France, protecting them from invasion. Conventional attack is impossible - you would have defeat combined armies of almost whole Europe and half of Asia to even cross the Soviet border. If the West-East line was placed in Germany, Soviet Union would be forced to expand their military forces. More and more money would be wasted on non-profitable arms' industry. By early 2010s ATL Soviet Union would have collapsed.

The Manchurian People’s Republic hardly counts as “half of Asia”.
 
"nearly the size of Western Europe" still doesn't mean it's "half of Asia".

Either way, I'll be optimistic here and I actually think Germany could still be united. We know that Stalin actually make satellites to act as buffer zones and I'm pretty sure the West doesn't mind not having a big border with the USSR. I think it's possible that Germany instead of being divided, is reunified in some joint agreement between the USSR and the West. If not, then I don't know what would happen. I really doubt that Europe would survive the 20th century and I think there'll probably be another World War in Europe eventually.
 
I don’t know where you got that nonsense idea that France would have decolonized if it reclaimed the metropole. They would just double down even harder with the extra resources of the metropole. The French were expelled from Indochina in 1957 - that rump state in the Paracels that held out until 1978 was a joke.
The French government was expelled yes, but not by the Indochinese French. When Jean Letournau realized he wasn't going to be getting much more help from the regime in Algeria, he struck a deal with the USA, proclaiming the Republic of Indochina as a bulwark against communism and to keep his status as dejure dictator. His government held Cochinchina with American and Chinese soldiers well into the 60s before the internal settlement with Diem that was meant to protect the white government did little to stave it's collapse, and of course the retreat to the Paracels.

Also, you're point about decolonization is true now that I'm thinking about it, and Portugal comes to mind. Might they follow the same path in establishing a united ultramarine republic and do away with colonial designation? With heavy oppression initially but eventually the establishment of a single identity.
 
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