DBWI: Germany and Austria lost land after WW1?

JJohnson

Banned
What would've happened if Germany and Austria had lost land in WW1?

Austria got the borders it declared for itself, with the backing of the American President - German Bohemia, Teschen Sudetenland, South Tirol, Sudetenland, Ödenburg, and so on. Germany lost Alsace-Lorraine and North Schleswig, but nothing else. I know the Poles wanted a corridor to the sea, but if they'd gotten it, wouldn't there have been a much bigger German resentment towards the Poles? They did get free and unrestricted port rights in Danzig (to this day) and Stettin (till 1999), so the point's kind of moot. I was kind of surprised to see the idea of a "Polish Corridor" was floated by the Allies after WW1. It's not often found in history books nowadays.

How would Europe look if both countries had lost even more land in WW1?
 
Maybe Poland would have not hated the west, and Germans so much. They felt greatly cheated by the West for no access to the sea, and making them a land-lock nation
 

Deleted member 1487

Maybe if the US wasn't willing to leverage its debts against its allies during the peace deal?
 
Maybe if the US wasn't willing to leverage its debts against its allies during the peace deal?

And maybe the UK and France would have not dislike the US so much after that. France had the plan to go into the Ruhr. Well, they did, but the US and UK force them to get out, or else.
 
Maybe the world political mess that lasted from the end of WW1 to the fall of Berlin in WW2 will have never happened.
Wilson fixation with his 'magical' league of nation allowed Hindemburg and co to start a politcal offensive much more powerfull than any military one and with Washington menacing economic repercussion basically forcing the entente at come at the peace negoatiation in a humilating way.
So in the end the Germans had come home feeling like victors (and with the Empire enlarged) and the terrible duo put themselfs as the 'great savior' of Germany and being 'asked' to basically become ruler for life.
The Entente powers instead feel themsels robbed of their prize, pubblicaly humiliated and with a strong enemy still in the middle of Europe...it's not strage that the ad hoc war alliance was so soon transformed in a permanent one after the peace signing, all the nations feeled that being united in the Brussels Front was a vital necessity...expecially with the Germans no glorify the militarism that at bring them in this situation.
 
Do we think that the Eurasian War would still have broken out? OTL, while there remained distrust between Germany and the Entente powers, the majority of hostility was between the Germans and the Russian revolutionary government - I won't say that the Russian invasion of Poland in 1941 and the war that followed was inevitable, but the division of power in Europe made it more likely IMHO.

And the butterflies from no Eurasian War would be fairly massive... For one thing, we wouldn't have the current Russian government demanding that Japan give them back Sakhalin and Primorsky Krai, and we wouldn't have all the muscle-flexing that takes place in the region every time the demand gets made.
 
Ah, you must be one of those all too-prolific users of counterfactual history internet forums where they actually believe what they write!
If you may recall, in actual history the following happens:
the Communist revolution spreads to China and Korea after Russia, and although Japan attempt to remove such forces their money runs out before they can claim victory. The establishment of Trotsky as leader results in a much more politically moderate government, although the Asiatic empire slowly comes under Moscow's control. The Great Recession causes a few countries, namely Germany, Turkey, Italy and Japan, to turn fascist and declare their national objective the destruction of Communism while other nations struggle to maintain stability. Skirmishes beget conflict and conflict beget war, and soon enough Germany and Italy invaded half of Europe, Turkey the Fertile Crescent and Japan most of Southeast Asia - from where the Second World War, perhaps allowing the use of the word "Eurasian", began with their simultaneous invasion of the USSR. As we know the result was horrific but simple: the strength and size of the Communist armies simply overwhelmed all its surrounding enemies. Although the Empire of Japan never technically ended its war with the Soviets we both know that they are at no position to do so - they are not so stupid as to wage war against the entirety of the Peking Pact.
So to and all this useless banter I'll say this: remember who won the war, and don't forget to register in the Great Proletariat Redistribution Movement by next sunday!

OOC: It's my belief that in any scenario it does not seem plausible that Japan will be able to continue its hold over Siberia, if such an event occurred TTL.
 
Ah, you must be one of those all too-prolific users of counterfactual history internet forums where they actually believe what they write!
If you may recall, in actual history the following happens:
the Communist revolution spreads to China and Korea after Russia, and although Japan attempt to remove such forces their money runs out before they can claim victory. The establishment of Trotsky as leader results in a much more politically moderate government, although the Asiatic empire slowly comes under Moscow's control. The Great Recession causes a few countries, namely Germany, Turkey, Italy and Japan, to turn fascist and declare their national objective the destruction of Communism while other nations struggle to maintain stability. Skirmishes beget conflict and conflict beget war, and soon enough Germany and Italy invaded half of Europe, Turkey the Fertile Crescent and Japan most of Southeast Asia - from where the Second World War, perhaps allowing the use of the word "Eurasian", began with their simultaneous invasion of the USSR. As we know the result was horrific but simple: the strength and size of the Communist armies simply overwhelmed all its surrounding enemies. Although the Empire of Japan never technically ended its war with the Soviets we both know that they are at no position to do so - they are not so stupid as to wage war against the entirety of the Peking Pact.
So to and all this useless banter I'll say this: remember who won the war, and don't forget to register in the Great Proletariat Redistribution Movement by next sunday!
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Well, the fall of the USSR and most of the Communist nation years later gave Japan some air to take in, and they was mass riots in Korea during the 70's, and China broke away from Moscow in the late 60's to do they own thing.

Besides, Turkey got a good deal with Russia when Russia let Turkey keep a good bit of land they gain so Russia can send more troops to fight Germany, Italy, and Japan.
 
More important might be to ask whether the holdings of the Empire of Japan would not have included all of Karafuto, the Kuril Islands, the Amur River Valley, and everything north of the westernmost point of the Sea of Okhotsk as either a direct possession or a satellite. Although the Russian Empire was able to reconsolidate under Marshall Kolchak at the Ob River before the Treaty of Omsk relocated the Imperial capital to Irkutsk, Japan had already made the deals to 'protect' the Amur province and Vladivostok along with the areas just north of it while outright acquiring the Kamchatka peninsula along with all Asian lands north and east of it (the phrase 'to the pole' gave them how much mineral wealth?!), northern Karafuto/Sakhalin Island, and the Kuril Islands. Their eventual acquisition of Manchukuo made the findings all the more interesting especially given that the resources in Sakhalin alone were enough to prop up the Imperial Army and Navy into the 1940s before their 'acquisition' of French Indochina, Polynesia, and Fiji. Their 'acquisition' of the Dutch East Indies and free hand in China as a price to fight Germany and its Soviet ally meant they controlled almost 15% of world oil production at the time. Would we be seeing Tokyo as a world power today if that had not occurred? Would the catamaran supercarriers of the Imperial-class be docked at Hawaii as a friendly port with the US - or California instead under Imperial control?
 
And they are losing control of the Baltics ever since. They can't really built a lot of ships, or do large trade due to all the rebel groups, and attacks.

The rebel groups are really poland's fault though, people welcomed them as liberators when they first came in, they were even cool when the russian minorities were kicked out, all the problems started with the polishization act of 1962.

Before that things were going great.
 
The rebel groups are really poland's fault though, people welcomed them as liberators when they first came in, they were even cool when the russian minorities were kicked out, all the problems started with the polishization act of 1962.

Before that things were going great.

I never understand why Warsaw did that act, or why they never try to get rid of it.
 
I never understand why Warsaw did that act, or why they never try to get rid of it.

Economic mismanagement leading to severe inflation especially in food prices followed by the standard authoritarian government response: Let's not fix the problem, let's blame the minorities!
 
I never understand why Warsaw did that act, or why they never try to get rid of it.

The conservatives thought that every one who lived in poland should act polish, speak polish, read polish, and pray polish.

The attempt to get rid of religious freedom was struck down by the courts the next month. Since then the conservatives parties scream and yell every time some one mentions that maybe they should allow newspapers in a language other then polish.

Still for all of polands problems with the way they treat minority groups their leagues ahead of the Ukrainians. The world would be much better if they never adopted the ideas of that crazy austrian artist A some thing or other.
 
The conservatives thought that every one who lived in poland should act polish, speak polish, read polish, and pray polish.

The attempt to get rid of religious freedom was struck down by the courts the next month. Since then the conservatives parties scream and yell every time some one mentions that maybe they should allow newspapers in a language other then polish.

Still for all of polands problems with the way they treat minority groups their leagues ahead of the Ukrainians. The world would be much better if they never adopted the ideas of that crazy austrian artist A some thing or other.

Hitler? I heard about him. A war hero from the Great War. I think he try some fail take over in Munich that got him kill.And yet for one little man, Ukraine pick to use some of his ideas, and use them on the Russian minority's. It's sad really.
 
Hitler? I heard about him. A war hero from the Great War. I think he try some fail take over in Munich that got him kill.And yet for one little man, Ukraine pick to use some of his ideas, and use them on the Russian minority's. It's sad really.

Thats his name far as Im concerned the hanging he got was too good for him, and yes what the Ukranian's did to the Russians was way out of line. Yes the poles and the balts evicted their russian minorities, yes the russians had and have a bad habit of using russian minorities as an excuse to invade or meddle but the extermination of ethnic russians in those 'camps' went too far.

The worst part of it is that there is no shame their proud of it.
 
A another thing. America. Much of the American public felt cheated. They whet though all that trouble, all that fighting, only to let them off easy?
 
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