DBWI: German Reunification Talks successful?
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
I think its better to keep Germany divided. Really? You start two World Wars, you get broken down. If Germany had reunited they would have the largest economy in Europe by now. And once that happens what's to stop them from rebuilding their army? Sure they may have been able to use it to fight of the Russians if they ever try anything. But really? How would France and Belgium feel?
Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us. Fool us three or more times and we're asking for it.
One post in and someone's already screamed "Nazi!"? Really?
It's not like it's an implausible idea. German nationalists could easily come to power, and it is, after all, a very industrialized region. We could see an invasion of the Warsaw Pact countries. It could very well unite the two blocs to stop it.
Generaloberst
Banned
If history has told us anything, the Germans are a very nationalist people. For all we know, a nationalist on the scale of Hitler could very well take power.One post in and someone's already screamed "Nazi!"? Really?
If you honestly believe Germany could get away with starting a Third World War, the idea is ludicrous, Germans have no desire to dominate Europe anymore, I am a German, I know, after the horrors of the Nazi's and the Holocaust, Europe would never even allow us to get that close, and there is no German desire to conquer the world anymore, it's not 1939 anymore, get your heads out your asses people
OOC: Im in charecter obviously.
Even tolerant and liberal-minded Germans were disgusted when the post-Soviet economic problems eventually led to the East German Famine of 1998 where 500000 people died and the EC forbade West Germany from sending any humanitarian aid. Is it any wonder that German nationalism became an acceptable perspective starting from the 2002 elections?
I think the West Germans got a bargain. The West wound up paying a fraction of what it would otherwise have had to in rebuilding while the Allies picked up the rest of the tab in what was kind of a second Marshall Plan for the East. With the East finally joining the EU, the border is now gone anyway in all but theory and the two economies essentially operate as one anyway. The Berlin Wall is gone, and while East and West Berlin are technically parts of two countries, the city functions more or less as a unified whole.
Frankly, given all this, I find the duplication of governments to be wasteful and tend to agree with those who think that the issue of reunification ought to be revisited. As for the idea of German nationalism rearing its head again, I find that to be rubbish. While there are pockets of extremism in any country, the two Germanies have shown themselves to be responsible members of the world community.
Frankly, given all this, I find the duplication of governments to be wasteful and tend to agree with those who think that the issue of reunification ought to be revisited. As for the idea of German nationalism rearing its head again, I find that to be rubbish. While there are pockets of extremism in any country, the two Germanies have shown themselves to be responsible members of the world community.
Generaloberst
Banned
I'm sure people said the same thing in the Weimar Republic. It would be a simple fact that a united Germany would want her former territories back.
What about the fact that both German governments have regonized the border with Poland, the East officially, and the West de facto? the formers German lands are no longer German, neither government has desires to conquer Europe yet again, and even if they tried, they could just be nuked to hell and back, a unified German government would not be a revanchist genocidal horde, that was a bad time in our people's history, but we are Fascists anymore, get your heads out of your asses, it's not 1939, the German people have largely been forgiven, (through not forgot), can't we just let these paranoid fears go for the sake of the German people? who deserve to be united as one, in the borders set up by the Allies after World War II.
Generaloberst
Banned
And leave you to your devices like in the '30s? Never. What about Austria? Or the Czech Republic? Perhaps you would be right, and a liberal government does come to power, but would you think that the rest of us would even take a chance with it?
The German people have no claims on Austria and the Czech Republic they are seperate nations and there borders are integral, we're not war mongering savages anymore! jesus, im sick of people seeing a German and imidiantly thinking they are Nazi's, anyone who believes in that rubbish anymore are fringe lunatics.
The West German government has had a peaceful exsistence of Democracy since 1949, with no interuptions, and have been a integral ally to the West and member of NATO, the East was largely a puppet of Moscow, but since 1991, there government has largely been very liberal and democratic. The German people have been quelled, we are not nationalistic fascist savages anymore, German reunification would be better for all. to end the divide, to end the last essence of the Cold War and World War II, so we can finally move on.......
Generaloberst
Banned
You could flip my coin and say that the Reds get in charge. I doubt the west would like that at all, hm?
Whatever, you Germanophobic idiot.. we are not going to invade anybody, got it? get out of 1939, get out of 1914. this isen't the past, this is now.
OOC: Again, in charecter.
Well haven't the Germans, both from the east and west, been resettling their old territories? I know that the Polish Census of 1991 showed a German population of 0.1% And as of 2011 that had jumped to nearly 11%. And then the Kaliningrad Oblast shows a 10% German population in the region. They might not be going to war, but the population boom of the recent years has shown a major shift in the German population.
Of course, The Swedish population in Finland has also jumped to nearly 15% by 2010. So maybe it isn't a German thing, but a "Germanic" thing.
Of course, The Swedish population in Finland has also jumped to nearly 15% by 2010. So maybe it isn't a German thing, but a "Germanic" thing.
Well, East Germany would not be an empty and poor land. Think about it. nearly 10milion people voted with their feet and leaved the former GDR in the 90ies.
German nationalism would not be so high, that was merely a reaction to the betrayel of former european allies aka France & UK.
It is no suprise that German Goverments are looking for strategical partnerships oversea, therefore the commitment in Iraq.
The sabotage of the reunification talks from Thatcher and her French lackey has spread distrust to the heart of every German for the next generations to come.
And as we all know, the oppostion of said countries has nothing to do with fear of a warmongering Germany. Everybody knows this is all made up. The reunification was sabotaged because France and UK damn knew that a 80milion people nation in the central of europe would dawrf their influence. Hell, its not like the BRD does that all alone now.
Otherwise even if East and West are not one state, the economic help pacts from the late 90ies give the BRD so much influence over the former GDR that it is hard to say that they are not one state.
Otherwise as a German myself I cant stop to laugh seeing that Scotland is now an independent country for 4 years.
Thats just utter rubbish. I dont know where you got your numbers from but it is essentially the other way around. The East German population has droped to 6milion and everybody of the 10milion went to West Germany. The people went where the jobs are, and that is West Germany. Not Poland.
Funny because poles are now a big minority in East Germany.
The whole: "Germany is on a way to irredentism!" is just BS. Everytime this is brought up when economic times in an european country are tough. Imagine in paralel universe where reunification was successfully. It is out of mind that a real minded person would protest with a placard showing chancellor Stoiber with a Hitler moustache. But here are we in 2013 and the london protests of last year are still in my eyes. Only because we voted not be part of that stupid Euro project like the british.
OOC: That is quite improbable. IOTL up to 200 000 Finns moved to Sweden to work in the more affluent Western neighbour in the 60s and 70s, and that was considered a huge emigration wave at the time. In the scenario you are proposing, well over 500 000 people would have to move from the affluent Sweden to (likely) poorer Finland for basically no other reason than irredentist nostalgia about a "Swedish Finland". That would be more than 5% of the national population of Sweden, and the per annum amount of people moving to Finland in a few decades would come quite close to Swedes moving to the US during the great boom of Swedish emigration to America during 1870-1900.
Unless TTL's WWII saw a huge reduction of the Finnish-speaking population of Finland. But in that case the biggest national minority would probably speak Russian, not Swedish.
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Thatcher and Mitterrand just were not going to let that happened. Fool me once, fool me twice, etc. etc., they did not want to see a reunited Germany on the board and, god bless him, Johannes Rau just did not have the chops to navigate those stormy waters. It nearly all went nuts as is, I honestly think the only scenarios are a.) Two Germanies, b.) Nukes fall, everyone dies (so, I guess No Germanies). Even if you removed the international problems from the table, I'm not so sure the PDS/SDP government in the East would be too enthusiastic about welding itself to the capitalist West, even if it was then ruled by their nominal cousin (the western party was called the SPD then as well). Not to crap on your thread, but yeah, I'm not seeing it.
EDIT: If Germany did reunite, what does that mean for Cuba? North Korea is straight up crazy-balls, they're not socialism in any real sense and will probably continue to do whatever, but would Cuba survive as a socialist state with basically no allies? And, shoot, with a united Germany would you ever see a Euro? I think not - being a bit fat powerhouse sitting in the middle of the continent, I'm thinking the D-Mark is going to end up the dollar's competitor before the end of the century, so why throw that out the window to hitch your monetary wagon up with Greece and Spain?
EDIT: If Germany did reunite, what does that mean for Cuba? North Korea is straight up crazy-balls, they're not socialism in any real sense and will probably continue to do whatever, but would Cuba survive as a socialist state with basically no allies? And, shoot, with a united Germany would you ever see a Euro? I think not - being a bit fat powerhouse sitting in the middle of the continent, I'm thinking the D-Mark is going to end up the dollar's competitor before the end of the century, so why throw that out the window to hitch your monetary wagon up with Greece and Spain?