DBWI: France does not invade Germany after the Anschluss

What if France would simply allowed the two German states to reunite? Would Europe be more stable? Did France's war mongering really help the situation? I think Hitler would become less radical over time. Germany might not have had two years of Communist rule before the Communist Party was finally totally destroyed.


OOC: I think a lot of people would have thought that way if France did intervene.
 
What if France would simply allowed the two German states to reunite? Would Europe be more stable? Did France's war mongering really help the situation? I think Hitler would become less radical over time. Germany might not have had two years of Communist rule before the Communist Party was finally totally destroyed.


OOC: I think a lot of people would have thought that way if France did intervene.

If anything, it would make the situation alot harder for the USSR when (or even if!) they decied to push into Western Europe in this timeline. If Germany had remained re-armed, it would be a decent buffer while France and to a lesser extent the UK got ready to help push them back, or atleast France wouldn't have had to defend backed up against Paris like they did in the first great war.

If the political situation would have changed anything, I have no idea, however. AFter all, the USSR did come West, even with a pro-Soviet Germany.
 
OOC: When I saw two German States, I thought at first this was the German Reunification in 1990, which France was not a fan of.

IC: Look, its important to understand how France works as a country. They are a nation of butt kickers--the nation of Joan of Arc, Napoleon, Petain and Bilotte. I don't think it makes sense to assume Leon Blum, himself a JEW, is going to allow a nation dedicated to KILLING ALL JEWS to get anywhere.

There is simply no way that France will wimp out and allow Germany to get away with its crap. France might decide to at least listen to the UK instead of deciding that Germany needed to get kicked, but Hitler wasn't going to stop at Austria.

I think it was clearly obvious that his next victim would have been Yugoslavia. Given the Croatian Uprising in 1944 that allowed Italy to grab choice portions of the country, I think Hitler would probably have expanded his deal with Italy to take what is now Slovenia and partition Yugoslavia with Hungary, Bulgaria and Italy.

So, given that Hitler continues at his reckless pace, He'll act in about Fall 1938. The Yugoslavs are in no real position to resist, but they are emboldened to try when France urges them to "F*** them all."

France and Poland then Double Team Germany, while a wussy Neville Chamberlain responds by pulling out of his alliance with France, much like he did at Austria. It would lead to a similar outcome--France, not the UK, Emerging as the world's policeman.

This is why, to this day, France continues to have territories around the world. Asking the French People--widely considered since the First World War to be the best fighters in the entire world--to wuss out in this period of time is UNTHINKABLE.

(OOC: This is probably a FrancoWank Scenario)
 
OOC: When I saw two German States, I thought at first this was the German Reunification in 1990, which France was not a fan of.

IC: Look, its important to understand how France works as a country. They are a nation of butt kickers--the nation of Joan of Arc, Napoleon, Petain and Bilotte. I don't think it makes sense to assume Leon Blum, himself a JEW, is going to allow a nation dedicated to KILLING ALL JEWS to get anywhere.

There is simply no way that France will wimp out and allow Germany to get away with its crap. France might decide to at least listen to the UK instead of deciding that Germany needed to get kicked, but Hitler wasn't going to stop at Austria.

I think it was clearly obvious that his next victim would have been Yugoslavia. Given the Croatian Uprising in 1944 that allowed Italy to grab choice portions of the country, I think Hitler would probably have expanded his deal with Italy to take what is now Slovenia and partition Yugoslavia with Hungary, Bulgaria and Italy.

So, given that Hitler continues at his reckless pace, He'll act in about Fall 1938. The Yugoslavs are in no real position to resist, but they are emboldened to try when France urges them to "F*** them all."

France and Poland then Double Team Germany, while a wussy Neville Chamberlain responds by pulling out of his alliance with France, much like he did at Austria. It would lead to a similar outcome--France, not the UK, Emerging as the world's policeman.

This is why, to this day, France continues to have territories around the world. Asking the French People--widely considered since the First World War to be the best fighters in the entire world--to wuss out in this period of time is UNTHINKABLE.

(OOC: This is probably a FrancoWank Scenario)

France should have stopped bullying other countries. Its simply un-warented anti-German atituted is unneeded. It had no problems OTL when Yugoslavia got taken down.
 
France should have stopped bullying other countries. Its simply un-warented anti-German atituted is unneeded. It had no problems OTL when Yugoslavia got taken down.

It might have been for the best. Don't forget that in 1956, Soviet Secretary Laventi Beria boldly gambled on a war as the only way to restore the "ideology" of Soviet Liberation.

Would France have been able to be the first nation with nuclear weapons without the provinces of Rhenanine, Saar, Bade and its Bavarian Vassal in its hands as the Soviets slogged their way through Poland?

Let's face it, Hitler REALLY screwed Germany big time by not honoring the French ultimatum. I don't think Germany would avoid getting carved up any better if the war was fought six months later, either.
 
It might have been for the best. Don't forget that in 1956, Soviet Secretary Laventi Beria boldly gambled on a war as the only way to restore the "ideology" of Soviet Liberation.

Would France have been able to be the first nation with nuclear weapons without the provinces of Rhenanine, Saar, Bade and its Bavarian Vassal in its hands as the Soviets slogged their way through Poland?

Let's face it, Hitler REALLY screwed Germany big time by not honoring the French ultimatum. I don't think Germany would avoid getting carved up any better if the war was fought six months later, either.

Well if France didn't go to war at either of those times, perhaps the nuclear weapons would not have been nessisary! The Germany military would have been enough to stop the Soviets with the aid of Poland and France, let alone the UK, and that is even going conservitive on the estimates of what Hitler's military would have looked like by then.
 
OOC: When I saw two German States, I thought at first this was the German Reunification in 1990, which France was not a fan of.

IC: Look, its important to understand how France works as a country. They are a nation of butt kickers--the nation of Joan of Arc, Napoleon, Petain and Bilotte. I don't think it makes sense to assume Leon Blum, himself a JEW, is going to allow a nation dedicated to KILLING ALL JEWS to get anywhere.

There is simply no way that France will wimp out and allow Germany to get away with its crap. France might decide to at least listen to the UK instead of deciding that Germany needed to get kicked, but Hitler wasn't going to stop at Austria.

I think it was clearly obvious that his next victim would have been Yugoslavia. Given the Croatian Uprising in 1944 that allowed Italy to grab choice portions of the country, I think Hitler would probably have expanded his deal with Italy to take what is now Slovenia and partition Yugoslavia with Hungary, Bulgaria and Italy.

So, given that Hitler continues at his reckless pace, He'll act in about Fall 1938. The Yugoslavs are in no real position to resist, but they are emboldened to try when France urges them to "F*** them all."

France and Poland then Double Team Germany, while a wussy Neville Chamberlain responds by pulling out of his alliance with France, much like he did at Austria. It would lead to a similar outcome--France, not the UK, Emerging as the world's policeman.

This is why, to this day, France continues to have territories around the world. Asking the French People--widely considered since the First World War to be the best fighters in the entire world--to wuss out in this period of time is UNTHINKABLE.

(OOC: This is probably a FrancoWank Scenario)

Most of that "kill all Jews" talk was just talk. It was to get the plebes to go along. It would have been increasingly weakened over time.
 
Most of that "kill all Jews" talk was just talk. It was to get the plebes to go along. It would have been increasingly weakened over time.

Look at Mein Kampf, and that the Germans had concentration camps built for interning its own Jews, and I think it's not all talk. I'm not sure how far it would have gone, but Blum was doing the right thing.

You guys are just envious that France is a modern Superpower...
 
You guys are just envious that France is a modern Superpower...

I have no problem with France being a superpower. It is the way they act in the international community. If the UK or even the USA somehow managed to gain this much power, they'd never use it to oppress small nations like Luxumborg or Togo like France is now!
 
I have no problem with France being a superpower. It is the way they act in the international community. If the UK or even the USA somehow managed to gain this much power, they'd never use it to oppress small nations like Luxumborg or Togo like France is now!

What do you mean IF the USA became a superpower?

Have you not paid attention to history? While you in Europe tore each other apart, we just sat here arming ourselves for when we might have to join. We just got lucky.

Just because we don't use our military strength to oppress others like French cowards doesn't mean that the USA doesn't have the strongest military in the world.
 
Look at Mein Kampf, and that the Germans had concentration camps built for interning its own Jews, and I think it's not all talk. I'm not sure how far it would have gone, but Blum was doing the right thing.

You guys are just envious that France is a modern Superpower...

Concentration camps and mass murder are tremendously different. Many authoritarian regimes use them to imprison political opponents--and let's face it, it's not like the Jews were the most active supporters of the National Socialists.

Hell, I'd call our Indian Reservations concentration camps, but the USA has never had a "kill all Indians" attitude (we just killed those that opposed our taking their land).
 
Look at Mein Kampf, and that the Germans had concentration camps built for interning its own Jews, and I think it's not all talk. I'm not sure how far it would have gone, but Blum was doing the right thing.

Maybe, but I doubt anyone could be THAT crazy!
 
What do you mean IF the USA became a superpower?

Have you not paid attention to history? While you in Europe tore each other apart, we just sat here arming ourselves for when we might have to join. We just got lucky.

Just because we don't use our military strength to oppress others like French cowards doesn't mean that the USA doesn't have the strongest military in the world.

Dude... you just lowered yourself to the level of France. Maybe it IS a good thing the US isn't a superpower (despite claims).
 
Dude... you just lowered yourself to the level of France. Maybe it IS a good thing the US isn't a superpower (despite claims).

It is generally acknowledged as one of the two superpowers. It's navy and economy are both larger than France's but France has the bigger army.
 
It is generally acknowledged as one of the two superpowers. It's navy and economy are both larger than France's but France has the bigger army.

The USA has only become strong sense the Japanese Empire fell apart in 88. Besides, I was refering to the fact that if you want to be considered "good", superpower or no, quit acting superior like France does.

OOC: Check the map thread for my vision of this world
 
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The USA has only become strong sense the Japanese Empire fell apart in 88. Besides, I was refering to the fact that if you want to be considered "good", superpower or no, quit acting superior like France does.

OOC: Check the map thread for my vision of this world
OK, what map thread, in which forum?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it in the Books and Media forum.
 
OOC, on the map it shows the British empire still existing, except in Malaya, Burma, borneo and Australia/New Zealand for some reason. Does this indicate some sort of Commonwealth bloc, probably possible with no British involvement in a huge World War.

If so we've got 3 Superpowers, all democratic and capitalist but not allied to each other?
 
OOC, on the map it shows the British empire still existing, except in Malaya, Burma, borneo and Australia/New Zealand for some reason. Does this indicate some sort of Commonwealth bloc, probably possible with no British involvement in a huge World War.

If so we've got 3 Superpowers, all democratic and capitalist but not allied to each other?

Yes, most of the British areas are independant to some degree, but Japan had managed to pull Japan and New Zealand away durring its hight. (Political means)

UK and France are pretty close, not nessisarily allied. USA is a nuclear power, but isolationist.

USSR still exists but has fallen behind the other powers.

Keep in mind this is simply my view on it, unless the OP wants to make it official.
 
See, that map looks right for 1954, before Beria launches the Second World War, but I think the ramifications of it and the Two Decades War in the Far East need to be addressed.

I also think that France, while annexing Algeria as part of Metropolitan France, claims the French state of "Bade" on the Map, which includes Stuttgart and Wuttemburg.

The Tricolor Bloc that France built as a result of the Second World War would include much of a shattered Soviet Union and reflect widescale puppets of French Colonies, such as French Tchad and French IndoChina. The UK's neutrality has hurt its world image, and the USA is an economic titan and a military dwarf.
 
See, that map looks right for 1954, before Beria launches the Second World War, but I think the ramifications of it and the Two Decades War in the Far East need to be addressed.

I also think that France, while annexing Algeria as part of Metropolitan France, claims the French state of "Bade" on the Map, which includes Stuttgart and Wuttemburg.

The Tricolor Bloc that France built as a result of the Second World War would include much of a shattered Soviet Union and reflect widescale puppets of French Colonies, such as French Tchad and French IndoChina. The UK's neutrality has hurt its world image, and the USA is an economic titan and a military dwarf.

OOC: The map was accurate as of when I posted it. There was no mention of the Two Decades War. Here is my rational.

I was assuming that despite nuking the Soviet Union, France was unable to actualy push into the USSR itself, and indeed, the ceasefire line may have been in central Germany. As such, Germany was liberated, but Eastern Europe remianed Soviet. I also assumed that Poland and Germany were invaded at the same time, which I could explain with several ideas. The Soviet Union sense the end of the war was weak, but unfied.

Japan gained much of its land politicaly. Durring the war with the Soviets, Japan demanded "Asia for the Asians" or they'd join the Soviets. In return, they did not directly annex any former European possesions. Austrailia/New Zealand were not conceeded, but they did enter the Japanese bloc durring the Cold War.

Frances border in Germany I wasn't quite sure on. I did want to add Baden to their land, but I was afraid that might be pushing it a bit.
 
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