DBWI: France defeated in Indochina?

What if instead of being killed by a stray bullet, Ho Chi Minh had survived to lead the rebels in Vietnam? I've heard he was very charismatic. Could indochina have successfully expelled Frances forces?
 
But it had been weakened by the WW2 occupation along with France itself economically.

But it wasn't just France fighting in Indochina... They got plenty of support. IMO, it doesn't matter if this Minh fellow lives or not, as long as France doesn't get help. That'd be plenty to get the rebels to win.
 
But it wasn't just France fighting in Indochina... They got plenty of support. IMO, it doesn't matter if this Minh fellow lives or not, as long as France doesn't get help. That'd be plenty to get the rebels to win.

Hmm... well when the war of independence restarted in 1970s the French sort of lost... although of course they were by that point already discussing Indochina´s independence seriously.

Sort of lost, that is if we see it as a war and not a series of terrorist attacks.
 
Hmm... well when the war of independence restarted in 1970s the French sort of lost... although of course they were by that point already discussing Indochina´s independence seriously.

Sort of lost, that is if we see it as a war and not a series of terrorist attacks.

How's any of that matter? The OP obviously refers to the original conflict, and what you quoted had nothing to do with what you replied.

OOC: Just chastising an annoying habit that people tend to do in DBWIs.
 
How's any of that matter? The OP obviously refers to the original conflict, and what you quoted had nothing to do with what you replied.

OOC: Just chastising an annoying habit that people tend to do in DBWIs.

OCC: thats the point of a DBWI's to get a look at the DBWI world :rolleyes:

IC: all the boy's saying is that the Indochinese could beat the French in general though it's hard to say if they could do so in the 1950's
 
OCC: thats the point of a DBWI's to get a look at the DBWI world :rolleyes:

IC: all the boy's saying is that the Indochinese could beat the French in general though it's hard to say if they could do so in the 1950's

OOC: But it's a much better thread if people actually 'speculate' on the 'WI' rather than randomly infodump.

IC: Okay, clarified. As I was saying, in the first go at independence, France had the backing of many Western countries. After the Algerian Atrocities, most of their allies had abandoned them.

So if you want an independent Indochina in the 50s, you need either a) Indochinese independence isn't seen as a threat or danger, or b) France does something stupid earlier to lose the support it had.
 
if you want an independent Indochina in the 50s, you need either a) Indochinese independence isn't seen as a threat or danger, or b) France does something stupid earlier to lose the support it had.

i'd have to add that one would also need some from of united front (like in 1970's) from the vaired peoples of Indochina, if just one group say the Vietnamese were to try and fight the French i'm sure they'd lose.
 
How's any of that matter? The OP obviously refers to the original conflict, and what you quoted had nothing to do with what you replied.

OOC: Just chastising an annoying habit that people tend to do in DBWIs.

Jeez... you can´t see how it´s relevant.

Well let´s see what was different about those conflicts. Basically the French weren´t willing to go through a war to keep the colony in the 70s but they were in the 50s.

So it´s pretty easy to see what has to change.

The french obviously have to be more occupied by Africa or more devastated in the worldwar. (Although it´s hard to see how excactly they could come out worse I admit).

You could als try to change the attitude of the French towards their colonies with some earlier POD.

(OOC: I don´t see truly how I did to much of an infodumping, it´s not like I specifically said yeah, maybe if China had turned communist, or something like that. It would be very unlikely that the french would keep their colonies longer than the 70s, or is it not?)
 

Archibald

Banned
Don't forget the french victory was written in blood.

Had Ike refused to nuke Viet-minh troops in Dien Bien Phu... De Castries troops were badly mauled at the time, and probably wouldn't have lasted very long.
"instant sunshine " reverted the situation in some seconds, turning an incoming defeat into a victory.
 
Don't forget the french victory was written in blood.

Had Ike refused to nuke Viet-minh troops in Dien Bien Phu... De Castries troops were badly mauled at the time, and probably wouldn't have lasted very long.
"instant sunshine " reverted the situation in some seconds, turning an incoming defeat into a victory.

OOC: :rolleyes: After this, I've decided to leave the thread. Geez, you can never get a good, unruined-by-infodumping DBWI thread, can you.

To Fabilius: Sorry, I misunderstood what you had said.
 

Archibald

Banned
The noob salute you, stupid!
Like it or not, but french president du conseil Georges Bidault asked Ike a nuke in 1954 to "save" dien bien phu.

Some people here have to understand that NOT ALL "RULES" ARE CLEAR FOR NEWCOMERS.

A troll is something, a newbie is another.
No new members = no forum in the long term! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
OOC:Calm down Archibald.

I didn't, and still don't, mean any offence.

I'm a newbie myself - newer than you it seems.

I just didn't find the nuke idea very realistic. I could probably be accused of infodumping in a couple of DBWI threads. If people make no mistakes, they'll never learn. (If this sounds patronising, apologies, it's not meant to be)
 
IC: Do you think that a defeat in Indochina would have led to a rethink in Paris regarding the Empire?

I believe a humiliating defeat could make them take stock of hte situation, leading to a much more enlightened view. This could mean that Algeria is treated with a lot more tact and finesse than in our timeline...
 
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