DBWI: Former President Kennedy dies.

He was 88, and the last of the brothers to pass. The president is already ordering all flags to be flown at half mast.

OOC: RFK is never assassinated and is elected President (possibly in 1968, possibly later). Beyond that is to be constructed, of course.
 
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He was 88, and the last of the brothers to pass. The president is already ordering all flags to be flown at half mast.

Yes, President Robert Kennedy did a lot of our country in the 60s. Nixon's attempts at stalling civil rights after his election in 1960 didn't really do much for us, but with Kennedy, we got a Civil Rights Act, a Voting Rights Act and he successfully kept us out of that Vietnam mess after Nixon took actions against the North Vietnamese.

Shame about Jack and his Addison's though.
 
The death of President Robert Kennedy is a sad day. He was a great president, much better than Nixon. RFK got us out of Vietnam.
 
It's a shame to see Robert Kennedy pass on. He changed American politics forever and ushered in a new era of liberalism for the country that would last, for the most part, until the late eighties. He knew how to cross the aisle and was as skilled at backdoor politics as oratory. Even after leaving office, his control of the Democratic Party was pretty strong. Anyone else hear about the talk in '80 of lifting term limits to get him to run him again? It's hard to believe he's attended every Democratic National Convention in fifty-four years.

I'd still say Kennedy's most moving moment though was when he appeared at his brother's funeral just before leaving office. A lot of people thought he was kind of cold and unemotional - and he was most of the time, honestly - but his passionate eulogy for Jack was really the moment that humanized him most.

Of course, obviously a lot of stuff's come out in the last twenty years that's shown the Robert Kennedy administration was far from as perfect as it seemed - a lot of people have been disappointed to find just how many back room deal was were made to ensure legislative passages - but overall, the dynamic image of him as a strong, youthful president remains strong today.
 
It's absolutely astonishing he lived this long to begin with, what with his menagerie of health problems. Of course, it's hard to call what he had for the last few years a life... :(
 
Are we going to overlook the phone tapping scandal though? He only beat Reagan in '72 by two points, and after the wiretapping was made public ten years after he left office, his image took a hit. Plus, Vice President McGovern was not the best choice to succeed him, and it took President Ford's entire Presidency to clean up the mess left over from the sorry 1977-1981 era.

Anyway, RFK was an interesting man. We all knew his health was failing, and I am glad he is at peace, even if I don't think he was as great as a President as he was a man.
 
Are we going to overlook the phone tapping scandal though? He only beat Reagan in '72 by two points, and after the wiretapping was made public ten years after he left office, his image took a hit. Plus, Vice President McGovern was not the best choice to succeed him, and it took President Ford's entire Presidency to clean up the mess left over from the sorry 1977-1981 era.

Anyway, RFK was an interesting man. We all knew his health was failing, and I am glad he is at peace, even if I don't think he was as great as a President as he was a man.

Oh that old conservative talking point? Why do you think none of that business ever went to court? It's just a bunch of trumped up nonsense trying to tar the image of the most popular democratic President in recent memory, and by extension the party as a whole.

As for McGovern, I admit that his time in office was difficult, but it was more due to factors outside of his control, like the Iranian Revolution and the emergence of more aggressive Soviet leadership than it was any particular incompetence in McGovern's part.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Yes, President Robert Kennedy did a lot of our country in the 60s. Nixon's attempts at stalling civil rights after his election in 1960 didn't really do much for us, but with Kennedy, we got a Civil Rights Act, a Voting Rights Act and he successfully kept us out of that Vietnam mess after Nixon took actions against the North Vietnamese.

Shame about Jack and his Addison's though.

Don't forget forcing the equal rights amendment through, though that was pretty much a given. Can you imagine how ASB it'd be if it was still legal in the US for companies to pay women less for the same work?
 
As for McGovern, I admit that his time in office was difficult, but it was more due to factors outside of his control, like the Iranian Revolution and the emergence of more aggressive Soviet leadership than it was any particular incompetence in McGovern's part.

Yeah, pretty much this. Whoever was in office from '77 to '81 was doomed in a sense. McGovern did his best to try to fight it off, and I think the Soviet situation would've deteriorated much worse under a Reagan presidency.
 
Through his efforts, we have a universal health care system, as a result of combining and expanding Medicare and Medicaid in the early 1970s.
 
Through his efforts, we have a universal health care system, as a result of combining and expanding Medicare and Medicaid in the early 1970s.

OOC: Given that the Presidential history ITTL seems to be:
Nixon 1960 - 1969
RFK 1969 - 1977
McGovern 1977 - 1981
Ford 1981 - ?

I don't think there's much chance of Medicare and Medicaid existing before the RFK administration. RFK would just be implementing universal health care from scratch, rather than combining other programs.

Yeah, pretty much this. Whoever was in office from '77 to '81 was doomed in a sense. McGovern did his best to try to fight it off, and I think the Soviet situation would've deteriorated much worse under a Reagan presidency.

Yeah, jeez, imagine if Reagan had been in office from '72 - 81. I mean once the hardliners took over from Brezhnev and the People's Republic of Iran got started detente was definitely out the window, but at least McGovern was making an effort to reduce tensions. He got a lot of accusations of appeasement, but given that the Soviets collapsed just a decade after McGovern left office, I'd say his approach was justified. If Reagan had been in office during that period the Cold War might have ended a decade earlier - by turning into a hot war.
 
Through his efforts, we have a universal health care system, as a result of combining and expanding Medicare and Medicaid in the early 1970s.
And we know how that turned out. My dad had to go to Costa Rica to get his heart surgery because the waiting lists were so long that he would have died if he had gone through the AmericiCare system. He had to sell his house to do it, but it bought him another ten years of life. Thank God President Jack Kemp was able to pass health care reform in the 1990s and ended the abuses in the system.
 
And we know how that turned out. My dad had to go to Costa Rica to get his heart surgery because the waiting lists were so long that he would have died if he had gone through the AmericiCare system. He had to sell his house to do it, but it bought him another ten years of life. Thank God President Jack Kemp was able to pass health care reform in the 1990s and ended the abuses in the system.

I don't know about your dad's particular situation, but after some hiccups at the beginning AmeriCare has worked pretty well. Most people these days don't remember what it was like to not have guaranteed affordable healthcare.

Kemp's healthcare reform was really more about cutting costs, which obviously has it's place, but he was just shoring up the existing system.

OOC:
How about this for an updated Presidential TL
Nixon 1960 - 1969
RFK 1969 - 1977
McGovern 1977 - 1981
Ford 1981 - 1985
Mondale 1985 - 1989
Kemp 1989 - 1997
 
Don't forget forcing the equal rights amendment through, though that was pretty much a given. Can you imagine how ASB it'd be if it was still legal in the US for companies to pay women less for the same work?

Agreed. The Equal Rights Amendment certainly gave us some challenges through the 90s as Hawaii became the first state to recognize same-sex marriage and they passed the Defense of Marriage Act, but the Supreme Court found it unconstitutional as it violated the ERA. Same thing with Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

It took some doing to prevent a Protection of Marriage Amendment though.

And yes, I don't think in 2014 we could have had a world where women are paid less than men for the same amount of work. That stuff belongs in "Mad Men", not the 21st Century.
 
Yeah, jeez, imagine if Reagan had been in office from '72 - 81. I mean once the hardliners took over from Brezhnev and the People's Republic of Iran got started detente was definitely out the window, but at least McGovern was making an effort to reduce tensions. He got a lot of accusations of appeasement, but given that the Soviets collapsed just a decade after McGovern left office, I'd say his approach was justified.
I'd say history has justified McGovern's presidency, even if people have mostly hammered on about it. Sometimes people look through history with too much hindsight, or overstate the powers of the office.

And we know how that turned out. My dad had to go to Costa Rica to get his heart surgery because the waiting lists were so long that he would have died if he had gone through the AmericiCare system. He had to sell his house to do it, but it bought him another ten years of life. Thank God President Jack Kemp was able to pass health care reform in the 1990s and ended the abuses in the system.
RFK's original vision for Health Care would've worked out a lot better, but he watered down a lot of important stuff to get it to pass. I remember in an interview after Kemp left office he admitted Kemp had, for the most part, perfected the Health Care system, save a couple minor issues Kennedy had.
 
I don't know about your dad's particular situation, but after some hiccups at the beginning AmeriCare has worked pretty well. Most people these days don't remember what it was like to not have guaranteed affordable healthcare.

Kemp's healthcare reform was really more about cutting costs, which obviously has it's place, but he was just shoring up the existing system.

OOC:
How about this for an updated Presidential TL
Nixon 1960 - 1969
RFK 1969 - 1977
McGovern 1977 - 1981
Ford 1981 - 1985
Mondale 1985 - 1989
Kemp 1989 - 1997
If by "shoring up" you mean a total revamping that eliminated direct government control and brought in a free market based system that featured a premium support mechanism that has made America's health care system the wonder of the world and a model for places like Canada and Great Britain which are struggling to reform their own government run systems. No longer do we have the nightmare of RFK's socialistic single payer system that caused wait times for even the most crucial procedures to skyrocket and caused shortages of drugs and medical devices. The resulting increases in premature deaths was part of the reason Kemp got elected in the first place. Of course the real catalyst was the scandal after the revelations that some government run hospitals were euthanizing patients who were judged to be either terminally ill or too costly to treat.
 
OOC: Don't know why, but I always seem to forget what DBWI stands for.
IC.
I'm glad Kennedy was able to get international work done with Soviet First Secretary Kosygin and at home, find a way to get rid of J Edgar Hoover at the FBI by working with members of Congress to expose his ways of getting information.
 
If by "shoring up" you mean a total revamping that eliminated direct government control and brought in a free market based system that featured a premium support mechanism that has made America's health care system the wonder of the world and a model for places like Canada and Great Britain which are struggling to reform their own government run systems. No longer do we have the nightmare of RFK's socialistic single payer system that caused wait times for even the most crucial procedures to skyrocket and caused shortages of drugs and medical devices. The resulting increases in premature deaths was part of the reason Kemp got elected in the first place. Of course the real catalyst was the scandal after the revelations that some government run hospitals were euthanizing patients who were judged to be either terminally ill or too costly to treat.

OOC: We can ignore this post. ;)
 
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