DBWI: EU discussion thread

I am not saying that the the European Union is evil.

You were implying that it was.

But what I am saying is that it is a political alliance that has yet to address some of the fundamental problems that lie at its core. When the proposed solution to the issue of General #676 and the Romanii Gypsy populace is simply to introduce a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, the problem of racism lies in waiting for some future administration rather than be addressed and confronted.

I've already pointed out that General #676 will likely be revised at the Stockholm Conference.

After all, even after the civil rights laws were passed in America, racism remained a severe problem for a couple of decades down the line. But the important point is that things will become better for minorities in the long term, not worse.

In regards to the issue of anti-Semitism, many Jewish people are still restricted by "papelles" (travel voucher documents) since 1994 . Many cities such as Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, and Madrid et al., will continue to be hotbeds of violence. Maintaining an urban policy that restricts an ethnic community to residence and movement to a few key neighborhoods is both dangerous and fundamentally undemocratic....

Need I remind you that Warsaw is controlled the Russian Empire? :rolleyes:

Again, I don't know what ATL you're coming from; Jews have long enjoyed full civil rights in the EU. Why, the Jewish communities throughout the Union (excepting Romania perhaps) enjoy some of the highest standards of living in the world.

And yes, as I've already said, there are plenty of idiot bigots who believe every vile Judeophobic conspiracy theory imaginable, but they're nowhere in the mainstream of wider Union society.
 
Yeah, I don't see what is wrong with the Jews in Europe. There are much bigger things to worry about, don't persecute people for their religious beliefs.
 
Yeah, I don't see what is wrong with the Jews in Europe. There are much bigger things to worry about, don't persecute people for their religious beliefs.

Um, Jews in the Union DON'T face the kind of systematic persecution that they once did. They're a highly integrated minority, and outside of the usual kinds of nutjobs, they don't have much to fear.
 
That is good then. I just wish my parents had enough money to visit Europe though, I wanted to see what it is truly like, So I know if the arguments are ture or not.
 
I've already pointed out that General #676 will likely be revised at the Stockholm Conference.

After all, even after the civil rights laws were passed in America, racism remained a severe problem for a couple of decades down the line. But the important point is that things will become better for minorities in the long term, not worse.

But in American history, unlike the General #676 law, consider that Americans had legislation that directly confronted the issue of race head on. A "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy seems to target those people who wish to practice their cultural heritage and beliefs in an open manner. Under General #676, students who happened to join any number of "Romanii/Gypsy Pride" organizations found themselves denied jonbs since 1994, making them easy targets for homeless and vagrancy laws....


Need I remind you that Warsaw is controlled the Russian Empire? :rolleyes:

Again, I don't know what ATL you're coming from; Jews have long enjoyed full civil rights in the EU. Why, the Jewish communities throughout the Union (excepting Romania perhaps) enjoy some of the highest standards of living in the world.

And yes, as I've already said, there are plenty of idiot bigots who believe every vile Judeophobic conspiracy theory imaginable, but they're nowhere in the mainstream of wider Union society.
Unfortunately this sounds like a person who hasn't been reading the same newsfeeds that come across everyone's tables. In 2002, you had Greek singer/musician Mikis Theodorakis claim that Jews were "the source of all evils". More recently British MP Peter Beaumont, has been talking about the "New Wave of Anti-Semitism" since 2003. Also EU Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin has been actively campaigning since 2006 on the problem of anti-Semitism in the EU, citing the 2004 riots....
 
But in American history, unlike the General #676 law, consider that Americans had legislation that directly confronted the issue of race head on. A "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy seems to target those people who wish to practice their cultural heritage and beliefs in an open manner. Under General #676, students who happened to join any number of "Romanii/Gypsy Pride" organizations found themselves denied jonbs since 1994, making them easy targets for homeless and vagrancy laws....

A law which will soon be changed for the better. The Union isn't perfect, but things would be far worse if it had never been founded.

Unfortunately this sounds like a person who hasn't been reading the same newsfeeds that come across everyone's tables. In 2002, you had Greek singer/musician Mikis Theodorakis claim that Jews were "the source of all evils". More recently British MP Peter Beaumont, has been talking about the "New Wave of Anti-Semitism" since 2003. Also EU Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin has been actively campaigning since 2006 on the problem of anti-Semitism in the EU, citing the 2004 riots....

Yeah, and that idiot was mocked roundly all over the Union for that. Last I heard he had his big contract with Imperial Records cancelled.

As a Jew who has visited Europe several times (and as a Jew who has several relatives there), I have not encountered the kind of stratified hate that you seem convinced permeates the Union. The East is a different matter, but anti-Semitism was always been more entrenched there; it's a good thing the Union's social norms will eventually erode that.

Those riots occurred in Bucharest...while deplorable, they cannot reflect as a stain on the Union's character. Quite the opposite; in the old days before Romania joined the EU, such a riot would have had government support...this time, it was quickly suppressed.
 
I am not saying that the the European Union is evil. But what I am saying is that it is a political alliance that has yet to address some of the fundamental problems that lie at its core. When the proposed solution to the issue of General #676 and the Romanii Gypsy populace is simply to introduce a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, the problem of racism lies in waiting for some future administration rather than be addressed and confronted.

In regards to the issue of anti-Semitism, many Jewish people are still restricted by "papelles" (travel voucher documents) since 1994 . Many cities such as Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, and Madrid et al., will continue to be hotbeds of violence. Maintaining an urban policy that restricts an ethnic community to residence and movement to a few key neighborhoods is both dangerous and fundamentally undemocratic....


OOC: Antisemitism in Western Europe was largely confined to political fringes which, even when in power, NEVER established discriminatory systems even barely comparable to medieval ones, let's not even talk about WWII-like. My God, Jews where the leading figures of Italian and German banking, and a Jew, Walther Rathenau, was among the most important German politicians of the time. Even in Fasist Italy, before 1938 OTL, Jews maintained important political and economical positions. Pogroms are Poland and Russia's concern.
 
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