DBWI: entente wins the second Great War

Montenegro is not an Option - Pola is too near and after the restrictions on the Regia Marina you Need French and British ships to make the landing sucessful. And then THE HSF will make mincemeat of the british coast.

Even IF there is a sucessful landing - making it over the dinarian Mountains is a hell (Gallipoli three times ...). There is a reason the Imperial Army left the gap open. The Austrians knew from the´Great war that it was impossible to advance agaisnt a determined defence. And Skopie - the BAse of Bulgarias West Army is nearer to Cetinja than Sarajevo. - Every push agaisnt AH from the south is countered by an Bulgarian counterattack to the flank. AH and Bulgaria had divided the BAlkans among them, they had also divided their responsibilities. Mutual trusr was and is high between Vienna and Sofia to this day with good reason.
 
Oh come on, guys. Everyone knows that Monk Seal succeeding was ASB. We don't have a glossary of ASB Monk Seal threads for nothing. Graziani was just too incompetent to make it work. It might have worked better if the Italians exploited A-H's ethnic divisions (like Milosevic did later) but Mussolini made it clear he was just replacing the Hapsburgs.
 
Impossible, end of the day Britain and France were late comers to the industrial revolution and simply could not compete with industrial powerhouses of central Europe in terms of production. Even Russia's "Mechanised Machine" was mostly powered by horses. As allies to the Russians they were worse than useless. I mean, Britain? Didn't some general say that whichever side had the British on their side would lose the next war? They were barely able to defeat the Zulus without poison gas, and they'd only been a unified nation for about half a century. They only joined the war when it looked like the Russians were heading for a quick victory, hoping to increase the size of their small colonial empire in Africa at a peace conference that never happened. Terrible tactics, terrible tanks, terrible leadership. No wonder half the nation, including their royal family, surrendered when the first German boot set foot on English soil.

France, with their fanatical devolution to their Emperor and militaristic culture, looked good on paper and did real damage after their surprise attack on the Central Powers. They were even able to overrun the Austrians Spanish and Dutch territories. But they had no fuel supplies of their own and quickly overextended. It would have been a nightmare to invade them given the Maginot line and their willingness to fight to the death for their Emperor, luckily those two atomic explosions over Lyon and Marseille put an end to that, saving potentially millions of German lives.

Perhaps if the Russians had not broken their Non-Aggression Back with the Ottomans and engaged on the most disastrous land invasion in history then maybe the entente would have been able to manage a negotiated peace, but with the Black Hundreds in power even that is unlikely. Perhaps if Tsar Nicholas was assassinated some one more reasonable could become Prime Minister and take on the Black Hundreds, but that would likely have caused a civil war between the regular Army and the СС. The Ottoman Empire was the largest country on earth at the time - had been ever since the defeat and absorption of the Mongol Empire of Timur the Lame they just kept on growing, the Turanic Federation is still the largest nation on even after the non-Turanic nations broke away after the Fall of Islamism in the late 90's. It would have been difficult enough under the best of conditions, but the Russians charged in with barely any desert equipment so confident were they that the Ottomans would easily collapse. General Drought made sort work of them. What is more they turned even the sympathetic peoples of the Empire against them with their genocidal plan to make Central Asia and the steppes their "living space." I mean, what where they thinking? Russia's natural eastern border is the Ural Mountains, everyone knows that! They'd have had to wiped out and enslaved millions of innocent Altaic people. Compounded with their senseless genocide of the Jews this makes the Black Hundreds clearly the most evil regime in history, despite the sickening attempts nowadays to make them and the Ottomans seem morally equivalent. The Islamist Ottomans only oppressed religious enemies after the Young Muslim Revolution, if you converted you were fine. Not so with the racist Russians.

Despite the fact that they were totally unprepared and their army and economy had been decimated by the continuous purging of supposed materialists and infidels, once the Ottoman Army got into gear it was only a matter of time till the crescent and star flew over the Kremlin. The invasion allowed the Caliph to rally people around the regime in a "Great Patriotic Jihad", even making token gestures towards secularists and religious minorities by supposedly bringing back some of the Empires traditional toleration.
 
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The man was great politician winning the prime minstership of Austria 3 times

Oh come on! We all know he tried to destroy the Empire from within! Its a good thing the German army stopped him, or we'd see the end of the Hapsburgs! I think that anyone advocating independence of any kind (as Milosevic was) shouldn't be allowed to run.
 
What is Japan had done something stupid and had attacked USA? would that had helped the entente? I mean Japan had Russia's navy bottled up rather easy early on in the war.
 
What is Japan had done something stupid and had attacked USA? would that had helped the entente?

Japan was "neutral" and had a defensive pact with britain. An entente victory requires less incompetent british leader. They managed to piss of pretty much everybody.

China: opium wars, boxer rebellion
Germany, South African Republic, Netherlands: Boer Wars
GW1: US
Irish War of Independence : Ireland
GW2: France,Spain,Russia,Italy, Turkey
 
Japan was "neutral" and had a defensive pact with britain. An entente victory requires less incompetent british leader. They managed to piss of pretty much everybody.

China: opium wars, boxer rebellion
Germany, South African Republic, Netherlands: Boer Wars
GW1: US
Irish War of Independence : Ireland
GW2: France,Spain,Russia,Italy, Turkey

Which was such a stupid move by Britain. They should have broke that defense pact in the twenty's.

They put Japan ahead of one of there oldest and closest ally's USA.

As for Japans neutrality that action off of Korea where they sunk Two Russian Cruisers and a damaged a Battleship to the point it never left port again.
 
I don't necessarily think that the US would be able to make a difference fast enough. Japan would NOT attack the US until after Russia was dealt with; Prime Minister Yamamoto was too smart for that. Now, lets say Japan does attack the US; it would take a while to mobilize the US army, which was tiny at the start of the war. So lets say it takes 6 months for the US army to be mobilized. Most of their strength will be focused against Japan; they'll send token forces at best to Europe. Japan at this point will probably win quite a few victories. Now, 6 months after the fall of Russia the Rhineland had been retaken. At that point, the French army was devastated; 1/4 of its number had just been captured at Cologne. I can't see the US deploying enough troops to the front to make up for that blow. There would have to be a tremendous amount of American troops to prevent Paris from falling a year later. Once Paris falls, its over. And, of course, all of this is assuming Chancellor von Rundstedt is dumb enough to honor the agreement with Japan. So overall, no, American help won't really change anything in Europe, though it probably is going to lead to the fall of Japan in Asia.
 
I don't necessarily think that the US would be able to make a difference fast enough.

The US fights against and not for the entente.

Japan:
- was a former entente member.
- killed John Rabe & friends in Nanking
- supported Ungern von Sternberg a jew hating lunatic.
 
The US fights against and not for the entente.

Japan:
- was a former entente member.
- killed John Rabe & friends in Nanking
- supported Ungern von Sternberg a jew hating lunatic.

OOC: So why was the US brought up in the first place, if it would just make Entente defeat all the more likely?
 
Oh come on! We all know he tried to destroy the Empire from within! Its a good thing the German army stopped him, or we'd see the end of the Hapsburgs! I think that anyone advocating independence of any kind (as Milosevic was) shouldn't be allowed to run.

U know conspiracy theories are not allowed on this site.
Maybe Japan sides with the CP early in the war and Attacks the U.S.
 

Deleted member 1487

Which was such a stupid move by Britain. They should have broke that defense pact in the twenty's.

They put Japan ahead of one of there oldest and closest ally's USA.
When had the US and UK ever been allied? They had an adversarial relationship until the 1st Great War and then trade improved things somewhat, but then they got nastier again when Britain was on the losing side and blamed the US for not helping. Things thawed in the 1930s, but the US wasn't particularly happy when the 2nd Great War started and things got uglier. Japan was a safe bet as an ally because the US-UK relationship was so testy, but of course Japan neutralized itself by the invasion of China and THAT was the point that the UK should have cut ties...but they clung on in the hope of getting help in Europe like Japan had done in GW1 and when that didn't materialize...
 
OOC: So why was the US brought up in the first place, if it would just make Entente defeat all the more likely?

OOC: The US stays neutral in GW1 and GW2. The entente needs the US as a member to win GW2.
PoD: 2nd Boer Wars ends with a Boer Victory
GW1: CP Netherlands(britain declares war), war ends with a CP victory in the east, a stalemate in the west and the CP powers loosing their colonies.
Russian Civil War: White Forces supported by germany win the war vs the bolcheviks and japanese backed white forces)
Great Recession: fascists take over france,russia and britain
Spanish Civil War: Escalates and leads to GW2.
GW2: Is a nasty affair and ends with several nuclear explosions on british soil.
 
U know conspiracy theories are not allowed on this site.
Maybe Japan sides with the CP early in the war and Attacks the U.S.

Think about it though! It makes perfect sense! Milosevic was Serbian, and the Serbs rose up throughout his administration which he did nothing to stop! He acted so weak, the Empire nearly broke apart because of him!

In any case, the US for the Cps and Japan for the Entente is NOT an equal trade. Japan had enough trouble against the Qing in the war in the 60s; if the Qing could beat the Japs within two years, the US and Germany should manage it easily.
 
Think about it though! It makes perfect sense! Milosevic was Serbian, and the Serbs rose up throughout his administration which he did nothing to stop! He acted so weak, the Empire nearly broke apart because of him!

In any case, the US for the Cps and Japan for the Entente is NOT an equal trade. Japan had enough trouble against the Qing in the war in the 60s; if the Qing could beat the Japs within two years, the US and Germany should manage it easily.

Come now, Milosevic was an idealist who believed he could calm the Serbs through concessions and increased autonomy. It didn't work in the end and the Imperial forces had to intervene to destroy the rebellion, but you can't blame the man for trying to find a peaceful solution. Perhaps he was a bit too kindhearted for the position he found himself in, but he was never an enemy of the state.
 
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