DBWI: entente wins the second Great War

What would the world look like if Britian,France,Russia and Italy had beat germany,Austria-hungry ,ottomans and there eastern puppets
 
I heavily doubt that Imperial Russia could have become an economic juggernaut Russia became OTL without the beating and humiliation it received. The loss in the Second Great War was really the thing which ended it's militaristic and authoritarian tendencies.
The Ottomans should do well with all their oil reserves, if some arab state is not declared.
The dissolution of Austria could turn very messy, on the other hand. There are no clear ethnic borders, and every new nation-State would want their fair share.
 
I doubt that the Austro-Hungarian empire could have been dissolved as well as OTL. They call it the Velvet divorce for a reason. Without the Hapsburgs leading the transition, I see lots of violence and ethnic conflicts emerging. There was plenty of agitation as is, we're lucky it didn't boil over.
 
BUt how do the Russians REACH the line in Poland. The Heer and the Royal Polish troops stood deep in Russia. The Balkans Held longer than russia OTL and it did not matter. The Hetmanate troops overran the Caucasus in the first weeks of the war. Russians main industrial centers were overrun also, NO oil fro the cuacasus. I siomply can't see it. You need someone who can feed and equip the Russians after 3 months in the war. The only Nation who could do it is the USA, but Isolationist as they were they would not interfere. They would sell to all who could afford their Prices - and after the First Great war only GErmany has the Money...
 
Thats fair enough. Its worth mentioning, however, that the Russians only really acted as a sink for CP troops. The fall of Russia let the French take the Rhineland, remember. If the Kaiser didn't listen to Guderian and didn't incorporate Panzer divisions in to the Heer, the Germans wouldn't really be able to counter the French in the Rhine. Plus, without the Panzers, Russia might have held out for longer, giving the French an even bigger chance to do damage. If the French get past the Rhine, the Germans might even shift troops away from the East. After all, Germany cares more about its homeland that for Ukraine, Belarus and the Cossaks.
 
Maybe if Britain and france launched operation sea lion in northern Germany or Denmark

Don't you going pulling that out of the closet again. WSF is WSF, the whole board can agree on that much.*


*OOC: When Shoggoths Fly, TTL's ASB equivalent.
 
Maybe if Britain and france launched operation sea lion in northern Germany or Denmark

Yeah, no. Why would the Entente dare to violate the neutrality of Denmark? And how would the Royal Navy be able to decisively defeat the High Seas Fleet, or at least keep it in port, made even more challenging because of the distribution of the fleet at Wilhelmshaven and Kiel, which is in northern Germany, the area the British element of Sea Lion was supposed to encompass? Jutland showed that both navies were unable to decisively defeat each other even with all that great firepower from the dreadnoughts. And of course, LOGISTICS. The disaster at Gallipoli would be multiplied tenfold were the operation to be executed, but with the added element of urban warfare, as cities like Hamburg and Kiel would have been completely destroyed.
 
I suspect if cooler heads hadn't prevailed the US would have entered the war on the side of the entente after the Texas affair a week into the war.

Seriously, what what were the Germans thinking sinking a US ship in the open like that?

It's a good thing the Germans listened to Roosevelt's demands... otherwise they would've been in big trouble.

Do you think the Americans would've offered the entente equipment for free? Or joined the war?
 
I suspect if cooler heads hadn't prevailed the US would have entered the war on the side of the entente after the Texas affair a week into the war.

Seriously, what what were the Germans thinking sinking a US ship in the open like that?

It's a good thing the Germans listened to Roosevelt's demands... otherwise they would've been in big trouble.

Do you think the Americans would've offered the entente equipment for free? Or joined the war?

I don't see why the Germans would have not accepted Roosevelt's demands; they pretty much had nothing to lose. I don't think Roosevelt would have entered the war; he would definitely have rather seen a Monarchist Europe over a Fascist one.
 
I want to discuss in this discussion,but I'm relatively new here,so what exactly are you supposed to discuss in DBWIs?
 
DBWI

I want to discuss in this discussion,but I'm relatively new here,so what exactly are you supposed to discuss in DBWIs?

OOC:Well, I am even newer than you (just joined in a few days ago), but will try to help.

DBWI means Double Blind What IF. Basically we all pretend to live in alternate timeline and we ask what would have happened if a particular event happened as our own proper timeline.

Example of DBWI:

1.What do you think will happen if Bush beat Al Gore and won the 2000 US Election? Would 911 stil happened? Would Bush be able to avoid the mistake did by President Gore in our timeline?

2.What would happened if women managed to get the right to vote? I can't imagine living in a world where women can vote! That must be a very messy society!


OOC means Out of Character. If we want to post something but don't want to involve in the whole acting/pretending, then we use OOC.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
I don't see why the Germans would have not accepted Roosevelt's demands; they pretty much had nothing to lose. I don't think Roosevelt would have entered the war; he would definitely have rather seen a Monarchist Europe over a Fascist one.

Even if Germany refused, Roosevelt wouldn't have entered. The guy had to much to deal with anyway, be it the race rebellions in Mississippi, the Socialists in the Rust Belt and that damn Canadian warship in Seattle. After what happened in Liberia, I doubt he would have gone for a boots on the ground approach if his hand was forced, Congress was too against intervention after that for him to be able to do anything major. Texas would have given him the ability to trade with the Entente (at a price of course) but until Red Thursday, nothing really triggered the American Public to go to war.
 
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Deleted member 1487

Though the Entente had a lot of manpower and military potential, they couldn't beat the quality of the Central Powers' forces or technology. Frankly the Germans were just too far ahead of the game in nuclear tech and just about everything else. They're arrogant bastards, but they had a reason to be given what they were able to engineer during the wars and what insane victories they pulled off. France though was very stupid to think it could even remotely play in the league of Germany after the first Great War, even with all of the British help they could muster. The Russians too thought their numbers would win them something, but all it got them in the end was a bunch of body bags in the face of German jets, panzers, and nukes. Besides the Russians ended up just bringing out all that latent class conflict that was brewing and got undermined; I'm sure its just hindsight now, but they shouldn't have thought they could keep using their people like toys in a quest for continental dominance. Plus they shouldn't have thought the Japanese would stay out when they smelled blood, which sealed their fate.

Thats fair enough. Its worth mentioning, however, that the Russians only really acted as a sink for CP troops. The fall of Russia let the French take the Rhineland, remember. If the Kaiser didn't listen to Guderian and didn't incorporate Panzer divisions in to the Heer, the Germans wouldn't really be able to counter the French in the Rhine. Plus, without the Panzers, Russia might have held out for longer, giving the French an even bigger chance to do damage. If the French get past the Rhine, the Germans might even shift troops away from the East. After all, Germany cares more about its homeland that for Ukraine, Belarus and the Cossaks.
I mean the only reason the French got that far was the demands of the Eastern Front; they sucked off German reserves and the West Wall didn't cover Belgium and the Netherlands, so there was only so much they could do. As it was the French only reached portion of the Rhine with their sweep through the Ardennes and Belgium, but then the East was stabilized enough to release the Panzers for a swift counter blow.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Yeah, no. Why would the Entente dare to violate the neutrality of Denmark? And how would the Royal Navy be able to decisively defeat the High Seas Fleet, or at least keep it in port, made even more challenging because of the distribution of the fleet at Wilhelmshaven and Kiel, which is in northern Germany, the area the British element of Sea Lion was supposed to encompass? Jutland showed that both navies were unable to decisively defeat each other even with all that great firepower from the dreadnoughts. And of course, LOGISTICS. The disaster at Gallipoli would be multiplied tenfold were the operation to be executed, but with the added element of urban warfare, as cities like Hamburg and Kiel would have been completely destroyed.

They could have always attacked the soft underbelly- the Austrian's were still recovering from their victory from the Adriatic conflict in '35, and whilst the coastal defense of Dalmatia was strong, Austria's puppet, Montenegro, was always the weak one- I mean, that's why Italy attacked it when land offensives failed. If the Entente back Italy with a larger and more prepared force for 'Operation Monk-Seal', maybe Britain sends a landing party or two, then the Italians could have gotten a meaningful foothold in Montenegro. If they can get as far North as Sarajevo (No hard task), then that spells trouble for A-H and the CP. Austria lacked the fancy toys the German's had, so it's not hard to see how a British/Italian force could penetrate this far.
 
They could have always attacked the soft underbelly- the Austrian's were still recovering from their victory from the Adriatic conflict in '35, and whilst the coastal defense of Dalmatia was strong, Austria's puppet, Montenegro, was always the weak one- I mean, that's why Italy attacked it when land offensives failed. If the Entente back Italy with a larger and more prepared force for 'Operation Monk-Seal', maybe Britain sends a landing party or two, then the Italians could have gotten a meaningful foothold in Montenegro. If they can get as far North as Sarajevo (No hard task), then that spells trouble for A-H and the CP. Austria lacked the fancy toys the German's had, so it's not hard to see how a British/Italian force could penetrate this far.

Could we see an Austrian collapse in this case
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Could we see an Austrian collapse in this case

Well the way I see it, a successful Monk-Seal is going to push into Bosnia and Herzegovina- through the mountains and such. A push as deep as Sarajevo is either going to break the A-H, the various ethnic groups realizing how weak the government is and violently leaving, or we could see a stronger resolve among them to unify and push back the Italy. Of course, this might push the invasion of Italy and siege of Venice earlier then IOTL- I don't see A-H reacting well to a successful Italy.
 
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