As we all know, Elephants went extinct in Europe and the Americas durring the ice age, however Domesticated elephants where reintroduced to Southern Europe by Hannibal, and later used extensively by the Romans. Later the Spainish reintroduced both Horses and Elephants to the Americas. What if this had not occured?
DBWI: Elephants not reintroduced to the Americas?
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
We wouldn´t have seen the amazing Comanche Elephant lords reigning the plains of Texas on their North African Elephants. Also there wouldn´t be all the iconic Western movies about Elephant-Boys like "A Man called Elephant".
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Jack Douglass
Banned
Well without the famed winged Slonaks [From Slon Jahac [serbian] to Hungarian, to Polish], Polono-Hungary could never have stopped the Mongols.
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Yes, or the Frankish Elephant Riders, who saved Europe from the Viking raids . The Middle Ages wouldn´t be the same , without Elephant-Knight tournments. Every knight needed a trusted Dumbo.
We all know that elephant cavalry was mostly for prestige by that point. The death of the khan and the resulting split between his generals is what saved Polono-Hungary.
In a strange way, it would actually have slowed down the technological advance of the US, in particular when it comes to motor cars and tractors. OTL, the reliance of the American farmer on elephants forced them to leave vacant large regions of the US where there was not enough water and initial food for the elephants, even if there was enough water to grow crops. Thus the introduction of the first motor tractors broke into a previously untapped market. "you don't have to wash and feed your Ford when you don't use it" was just too big of an argument.
If the American colonists never had elephants for whatever ASB reason like wrong climate and native diseases and had to rely on oxen, mules and plough horses, there would not be such a benefit for switching to cars. True, you still have to feed a mule even if you don't use it, but the land available for cultivation would also be bigger, so no great agrarian revolution because of the Ford model T.
Of course cars would eventually come about for personal transportation in cities, but it will be easily 20 to 30 years later then OTL, not before 1920 anyway.
And of course without elephants, we would neither have the Ford Hathi nor the Ford littletusk, neither the P51 Slonak nor the Jumbo Jet. (Or can you imagine a car named Mustang or Pinto... )
If the American colonists never had elephants for whatever ASB reason like wrong climate and native diseases and had to rely on oxen, mules and plough horses, there would not be such a benefit for switching to cars. True, you still have to feed a mule even if you don't use it, but the land available for cultivation would also be bigger, so no great agrarian revolution because of the Ford model T.
Of course cars would eventually come about for personal transportation in cities, but it will be easily 20 to 30 years later then OTL, not before 1920 anyway.
And of course without elephants, we would neither have the Ford Hathi nor the Ford littletusk, neither the P51 Slonak nor the Jumbo Jet. (Or can you imagine a car named Mustang or Pinto... )
Also, elephants were crucial to the initial success of several crusades - either the Antiochean Crusade (where it is a little-known fact that the Vandali's Elephants frightened the camels of the Sassanids!), or the Baltic Crusades (where the elephant cavalry allowed the Polish-Prussian alliance to crush the war-bears of the Ugrians).
Jack Douglass
Banned
What are you saying! You can't just ignore the psychological effects the Polono-Hungarian war elephants had on the Mongols! They had never come up against such beasts in all their conquests before, they got stopped dead in their tracks!
No, no, NOOO!!! We are not having The Phany Wars start here again.
Well, without the creation of a cute breed of dwarf elephants, it might very well end up being "my little pony" or "my little donkey" or something. I doubt that the original massive sized elephant breeds would be cute enough for a kids show.
OOC: so, where would elephants be able to survive in N. America? Southern CA and TX? The SE states? I'd think the plains would be a bit dry and cold for them...
We should also remember, that the North African elephant, Hannibal used, was a much smaller now extinct subspecies or maybe even seperate species , which was also tameable.
You know, elephants would probably be way worse off. Without regular contact, i doubt Americans would have developed the same love and fascination with Elephants. I mean yes, they are incredibly intelligent and deeply emotional creatures, but I don't think we'd have come to understand that if they were an ocean away. I highly doubt that we'd have fought the Ivory wars. In fact, i really doubt that Obama would be using drones against poachers if it wasn't for the deep bond between people and pachyderm.
I wonder how maritime trade and naval technology would be effected, given how many of the major advances in the late middle ages arose to enable the importing of elephants from sub-Saharan Africa to Europe, and later transporting them across the Atlantic.
I also wonder what the impact on elephant breeding would be. I assume that the only reasonable PoD to prevent them being reintroduced in America would be if they were somehow prevented from being reintroduced in Europe, in which case that's 2000+ years of domestication and breeding across a huge chunk of human civilisation butterflied away. That means no aforementioned dwarf elephants, no Pyrenees Chargers, no Syrian Mastodons, none of the woolly pseudo-mammoths bred to survive in colder climates, and that's not even touching on the vanity breeding projects of the Englesk aristocracy from the 17th Century onwards.
There are just so many butterflies that this scenario, and so much that we take for granted would have to be re-examined. Think of how many battles and wars would have gone differently. Without their legendary elephantry maybe the Spanish wouldn't have succeeded in pulling off the reconquista? If the Turkish army hadn't been delayed to ensure that their elephant divisions arrived they might have been able to send the much needed reinforcements which could have turned the Siege of Vienna in their favour? If the Anglo-Saxon Kings hadn't placed such a high emphasis on elephants then maybe William the Bastard might not have bankrupted himself trying to out elephant them, whilst Harald Hardrada might not have had the advantage of his experience in anti-elephant tactics he picked up during his stint in the Varangian Guard?
Also vis My Little Pony/Donkey, I read somewhere that Hasbro are planning to release an equine themed toy line marketed to little boys. Good luck trying to compete with Thunder Stallions
.
I also wonder what the impact on elephant breeding would be. I assume that the only reasonable PoD to prevent them being reintroduced in America would be if they were somehow prevented from being reintroduced in Europe, in which case that's 2000+ years of domestication and breeding across a huge chunk of human civilisation butterflied away. That means no aforementioned dwarf elephants, no Pyrenees Chargers, no Syrian Mastodons, none of the woolly pseudo-mammoths bred to survive in colder climates, and that's not even touching on the vanity breeding projects of the Englesk aristocracy from the 17th Century onwards.
There are just so many butterflies that this scenario, and so much that we take for granted would have to be re-examined. Think of how many battles and wars would have gone differently. Without their legendary elephantry maybe the Spanish wouldn't have succeeded in pulling off the reconquista? If the Turkish army hadn't been delayed to ensure that their elephant divisions arrived they might have been able to send the much needed reinforcements which could have turned the Siege of Vienna in their favour? If the Anglo-Saxon Kings hadn't placed such a high emphasis on elephants then maybe William the Bastard might not have bankrupted himself trying to out elephant them, whilst Harald Hardrada might not have had the advantage of his experience in anti-elephant tactics he picked up during his stint in the Varangian Guard?
Also vis My Little Pony/Donkey, I read somewhere that Hasbro are planning to release an equine themed toy line marketed to little boys. Good luck trying to compete with Thunder Stallions
.