DBWI: divided Dutchland

I am planning a trip to Dutchland, but, meanwhile i was searching about their history, i saw that the region was very divided during the times of the Protestant Reformation, when it still was the Holy Roman Empire of the Dutch Nation. So what if one part of the HRE had become majority protestant and leaved the empire? Perhaps if the policy towards protestants was harsher?

OOC: for those who are confused, ITTL the Netherlands never leave the HRE, so the term "dutch" refers to the people from Dutchland = ALT Germany, like "Deutchland" and deutch, because it was originally a term used to refer to the germanic nations south of Scandinavia in general.
 
Well the Netherlands might secede from Dutchland if it helps them exert more control over their finances and overseas trade. Protestantism is a good excuse. Something as strict as Calvinism would not appeal to them but perhaps 'vanilla' Lutheranism or a schism like the Anglicans might work.
 
Eh, Anglicanism really kind of lost it's mojo after Naples tried to enforce it as it's state religion (yes, I know the controversy around the Edict of Tropea, and I am sure I am going to get a lot of very enthused comments by Anglican Napoletanos, but the Regino period isn't known as "the bloody years" for nothing.) Maybe the Unitarians could make some inroads? They did just have a massive prestige boost by establishing the Transylvanian Free State around the time the most Dutchander tension was occurring.
 

yeetboy

Banned
Easy, weaker counter reformation leads to a religious war in which the northern protestants take control of North Dutchland, splitting the empire between north and south.

An infertile Infanta Isabella would probably be a step in the right direction to increase the Netherlanders resentment against the Spanish, and with it more resistance against Catholicism
 
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Well, given that the Dutch Empire is basically a continuation of the HRE (I mean, the name no one uses any more is Holy Dutch Empire) it seems clear to me that you'd need to destroy the HRE at some point before the Habsburgs fully centralized their control in 1815, as with Protestantism basically a minority faith, it wasn't falling apart from within. So I'd say the two powers best-placed to do that are the Ottomans and Poland, specifically Revolutionary Poland, which, of course, took Prague and Berlin and almost took Vienna before being thrown back. So yeah, want the Ottomans or the Poles at some point, and you got it.
 
The Poles actually retook the Polish Upper Silesia from the Dutch in the Age of Nationalisms as I remember and they commemorate it even now.
 
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yeetboy

Banned
A dismantled HRE wouldn’t stop the Dutch nationalism which was in full force during the age of nationalisms.

You’d need an earlier POD where the HRE would be seperated long enough for distinct cultures to develop, and I think a far stronger reformation in the north.
 
The Poles actually retook the Polish Upper Silesia from the Dutch in the Age of Nationalisms as I remember and they commemorate it even now.

yes, they still celebrate the expulsion of the Dutch from there also! Or their sack and burning of Prague and Berlin.

Though if you want the Dutch Empire broken, just attacks from the east aren't going to cut it, in fact I'd suggest the changes which need to happen are a role reversal between the Dutch and the French. I mean around 1300 both states were very similarly divided by feudalism, but where France couldn't really unite because of the powerful Princes of Burgundy, Aquitaine and Normandy the Habsburgs managed to find a way to force the Dutch rpinces to head and become subservient to them.

No clue how such a thing could be done, but with a united France and the Polish and Turkish threats it might be easier to divide the Habsburgs from their princes and break up the empire.
 
The Poles actually retook the Polish Upper Silesia from the Dutch in the Age of Nationalisms as I remember and they commemorate it even now.
Yeah, let them have their festivals so long as we get to commemorate taking it back.

Although really partitioning it along ethnic lines in 1892 was always going to be the best solution and I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed in Poland and Dutchland.

yes, they still celebrate the expulsion of the Dutch from there also! Or their sack and burning of Prague and Berlin.

Though if you want the Dutch Empire broken, just attacks from the east aren't going to cut it, in fact I'd suggest the changes which need to happen are a role reversal between the Dutch and the French. I mean around 1300 both states were very similarly divided by feudalism, but where France couldn't really unite because of the powerful Princes of Burgundy, Aquitaine and Normandy the Habsburgs managed to find a way to force the Dutch rpinces to head and become subservient to them.

No clue how such a thing could be done, but with a united France and the Polish and Turkish threats it might be easier to divide the Habsburgs from their princes and break up the empire.
Well, then French Wars of Religion basically fractured France for good, as Burgundy joined the HRE (and later Dutchland) with Habsburg backing against the not-Catholic enough French, and the Protestants in Normandy and Acquitaine rejoined England. I guess you'd have to prevent or mitigate the Wars of Religion.
 
Yeah, let them have their festivals so long as we get to commemorate taking it back.

Although really partitioning it along ethnic lines in 1892 was always going to be the best solution and I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed in Poland and Dutchland.


Well, then French Wars of Religion basically fractured France for good, as Burgundy joined the HRE (and later Dutchland) with Habsburg backing against the not-Catholic enough French, and the Protestants in Normandy and Acquitaine rejoined England. I guess you'd have to prevent or mitigate the Wars of Religion.

or possibly redirect them into Dutchland instead of them happening in France.

I wonder though, would a stronger Russia help? I mean their constant infighting them to be fractured both along religious as well as cultural lines these days, but if it had been stronger, could it have been a force to prevent the rise of the Holy Dutch Empire.
 
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