DBWI: CVA-01/TSR-2 Programs cancelled 1966

OOC. Would the RN have known about the power of the BS6 catapult in 1961 when they were deciding to put Speys in the Phantom, because at that time the RN was using 103' BS4, 145' BS4A, 151' BS5 and the Eagle was getting the first 199' BS5A? The BS6 was going to be 250' and have more power than the BS5A so as you say the Spey wasn't needed for the launch although it would probably have still been needed for political reasons.
O.O.C.

I think they would have because work on CVA.01 began in 1960 and F-4K wasn't approved until 1964 after the 2 year P.1154RN interlude. Furthermore the specification for CVA.01 included the ability to operate 30 OR.346/ER.206 variable geometry superplanes, which in the early 1960s were planned to replace the air group of 36 Phantoms and Buccaneers in the 1970s.
 
OOC: It's a shame that TSR-2 is in the mix here because I tend to think that the P.150 Buccaneer would have been the wiser choice, particularly if it allowed for a naval variant that could run in to the early 2000's.

Also, I know that Boeing and IAI looked at Super Phantom concepts in the 80's, would these have gotten any further if the UK had been looking to go in that direction?
 
According to BBC News, a Grumman C-2 suffered a ramp strike while landing on Queen Elizabeth. The crash and resulting fire did a lot of damage to the flight deck. Still no word on the condition of the C-2's flight crew.
 

Think you made a few mistakes there. The RN got four Bristols, though they did lose one to mine in Desert Storm (HMS Manchester)

The Royal Navy never quite lost all its anti air capabilty, as the six Type 43's with Sea darts came along in 1980-1984 to replace the Leadners.. Not as good as a Bristol, but pretty good. It helped that HMS Duke of York was sold to Australia in 1976, which freed up a lot of Money.

Anyway, the fact the Type 25's are being built in Europe isn't because we don't have the capabilty to do them ourselves as the likes of the British Freedom party would like to make out, its because that under the Pan european agreement we signed with Germany, France, and Italy, as well as the secondary parties in 2001, British shipbuilding is churning out 18 Type 45 Destroyers so that the British fleet can be restored to eight Anti Air ships, which means the final Type 25 will be decommissioned this year.

Rolls Royce didn't do too well out of the deal for the powerplant, but then the Civilian aerospace sector, and the Kestral engine for the Europa 5 is extremely lucative. Shame the Merlin didn't win NASA's competition for the Earth Departure stage, but then the Europa 5 Heavy will be launching the Lunar Logistics lander for the moon landings later this year, so it wasn't all bad news.
 
Unfortunately, relations between Turkey and the West-especially Britain-continue to be frosty to this day. They bailed out of NATO after the war and joined the Non-Aligned Movement.

And nothing of value was lost...

Don't get me wrong, I like Turkey and the Turkish people, but their government...wow :eek: Good to know they're not getting modern NATO equipment anymore, they're having to go for Chinese knock-offs of old Soviet hardware

Anyway, the fact the Type 25's are being built in Europe isn't because we don't have the capabilty to do them ourselves as the likes of the British Freedom party would like to make out, its because that under the Pan european agreement we signed with Germany, France, and Italy, as well as the secondary parties in 2001, British shipbuilding is churning out 18 Type 45 Destroyers so that the British fleet can be restored to eight Anti Air ships, which means the final Type 25 will be decommissioned this year.

Exactly. A good thing, too - cooperation in design and building means that the major European nations can mutually benefit from cutting-edge hardware rather than wild variance in capability.
 
O.O.C.

I think they would have because work on CVA.01 began in 1960 and F-4K wasn't approved until 1964 after the 2 year P.1154RN interlude. Furthermore the specification for CVA.01 included the ability to operate 30 OR.346/ER.206 variable geometry superplanes, which in the early 1960s were planned to replace the air group of 36 Phantoms and Buccaneers in the 1970s.

OOC. And they still went with the Spey. Given the Phantom was ordered at the same time as Eagle came out of her rebuild with a 199' BS5A catapult I suppose the assumption was that at least some Phantom squadrons would be operating from small carriers for more than a decade. Add that to the need for British industrial participation and wella, Spey. That said I like the Spey Phantooms the best, the longer range and extra thrust are more useful in my mind that a better top speed in clean condition which is the first thing to go once you start hanging bombs on the wings.
 
Think you made a few mistakes there. The RN got four Bristols, though they did lose one to mine in Desert Storm (HMS Manchester)

The Royal Navy never quite lost all its anti air capabilty, as the six Type 43's with Sea darts came along in 1980-1984 to replace the Leadners.. Not as good as a Bristol, but pretty good. It helped that HMS Duke of York was sold to Australia in 1976, which freed up a lot of Money.

Correction, Duke of York was sold to Canada.
 
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