DBWI Cuba not a Jewish state

After the reconquesta Spain became less tolerant of their jewish population, with the discovery of the new world they forcibly removed Spains jewish population and made them settle in the island of Cuba. As the Spanish Monarchy gained power over other regions, other jewish populations were forced to move to Cuba. Though non of these forced relocations matched the fleet of tears, over the centuries the Jewish population of Cuba grew, becoming bigger, and more bitter about how the empire treated them. Finally the resentment came to a head during the 1860s when Spain decided to bring up the idea of forcible conversion to Catholicism again.

Five years of brutal war later, the Spanish were kicked off the Island and Cuba became the first Jewish State to exist in centuries, it still exists even now, but what if Spain didn't use Cuba as a dumping ground what if the Island of Cuba didn't become the republic of New Israel as it is known to this day?
 
At least we wouldn't see rising of Jewish nationalism when without Cuban Jewish community Jews would be still diaspora.
 
IMO, the Spanish would have tried to send the Jews somewhere else. I could see the Florida peninsula as a possibility if they want to avoid North Africa, Cuba, or Mexico.
 
I believe that without US weapons and israeli support for Morocco, Spain could have easily marched into south morocco in the 1880s.
Recently a memorial was opened in Layoun comemorating the new israeli advisors and soldiers who supported Morocco during the spanish invasion.

Didn't the german and east european jews want to create a jewish state in Palestine?
 
Didn't the german and east european jews want to create a jewish state in Palestine?

Some still do. With Cuban religious groups' financial support the New Zionist movement nearly destabilized the Levant in the '70s after the British pulled out. The problem with the idea of a Jewish Palestine is actually attracting enough people to make it happen. Nobody wants to move to a place with virtually no infrastructure, no jobs, and constant religious tension when you can immigrate to Cuba and live in a posh Havana high-rise looking out over the new Temple.

On a side note, without Cuba as a Jewish state I doubt we'd see a resurgence of Hebrew as a living language either. Since the early 1990's literally dozens of school have been established across Cuba to teach Hebrew. With enough time and government backing it could even come to challenge Spanish as Cuba's primary language.
 
I believe that without US weapons and israeli support for Morocco, Spain could have easily marched into south morocco in the 1880s.
Recently a memorial was opened in Layoun comemorating the new israeli advisors and soldiers who supported Morocco during the spanish invasion.

Didn't the german and east european jews want to create a jewish state in Palestine?

OOC: Surely USA would butterfly away? Or at least it is very unrecognsible.
 
I don't think the Cuba Libre movement would ever be a thing. But then again, it gave the Jewish world one overwhelming positive - rum is now the drink of choice instead of Manischiewicz wine.

Also, the population boom during the 1940s. America and the U.K. sure helped Cuba a lot, getting Jews out of Europe before Hitler could slaughter them. Even if it's an eyesore, the Cubans don't dare touch that base at Guantanamo Bay; it's Cuba's thank-you to the Americans. We all know things could have been a lot worse for Jewish folks had Cuba not taken in six million Jews - and turned a lot of them into fighting machines. Even still to this day - I saw a T-shirt on someone saying, "Don't worry America, Cuba is behind you." Pretty funny stuff.
 
Well, you wouldn't have this great stronghold of Sephardic Jewish culture without Cuba.

Most of the Jews in America - or left in Europe, or attempting to settle Palestine, are Ashkenazi, and mostly speak Yiddish. Most of the rest, including those in Palestine, are Mizrahi, or one of several odd pockets like in India or China.

Without Cuba serving as a safe haven for Sephardic Jews, I could see the Inquisition, or the Holocaust, or one of the dozen other attempts on Jews killing many of them.

As it stands, it preserved yet another branch of the Jewish identidy.

Also, to be less Jewish about it, sans-Cuba, you wouldn't have the interesting interactions between Cubano Jews and all the Yiddish Yankee snowbirds in Florida.
 
I don't think the Cuba Libre movement would ever be a thing. But then again, it gave the Jewish world one overwhelming positive - rum is now the drink of choice instead of Manischiewicz wine.

Also, the population boom during the 1940s. America and the U.K. sure helped Cuba a lot, getting Jews out of Europe before Hitler could slaughter them. Even if it's an eyesore, the Cubans don't dare touch that base at Guantanamo Bay; it's Cuba's thank-you to the Americans. We all know things could have been a lot worse for Jewish folks had Cuba not taken in six million Jews - and turned a lot of them into fighting machines. Even still to this day - I saw a T-shirt on someone saying, "Don't worry America, Cuba is behind you." Pretty funny stuff.

Well that and america does pay the Cuban/Israeli government for the use of that base.

Also the divide on weather to call it Cuba or Israel can get annoying. The Latin america prefers to call it Cuba the spanish name, the natives prefer to be called Israeli but a few of the really strict orthadox people get really pissed if you call it Israel, but some of the nationalists get really angry if you call it Cuba.

As for Guantanamo, that was gained after the spanish american war/ War of defiance/ Imperial war. When spain decided to try to recoquer the island in the late 1890s with their rinkadink Navy as punishment for sending arms to Morrocco...it did not end well for them at all. Thats when Guantamamo bay was seeded to the US, as long as america pays its rent. That predates world war 2 by quite a bit. The two countries have been tight for a very long time.
 
Well that and america does pay the Cuban/Israeli government for the use of that base.

Also the divide on weather to call it Cuba or Israel can get annoying. The Latin america prefers to call it Cuba the spanish name, the natives prefer to be called Israeli but a few of the really strict orthadox people get really pissed if you call it Israel, but some of the nationalists get really angry if you call it Cuba.

As for Guantanamo, that was gained after the spanish american war/ War of defiance/ Imperial war. When spain decided to try to recoquer the island in the late 1890s with their rinkadink Navy as punishment for sending arms to Morrocco...it did not end well for them at all. Thats when Guantamamo bay was seeded to the US, as long as america pays its rent. That predates world war 2 by quite a bit. The two countries have been tight for a very long time.

It wasn't always this way - we can thank Henry Morgenthau's influence for all the work the American government did with Cuba. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed in the dispute over helping Cuba - the Cuban military was influential in the Normandy raid; if anything, the Cubans had to be reined in. Still, that section of Berlin that they call Little Cuba is nice - kind of an "up yours" to the Nazis that the nicest, wealthiest, cleanest and most beloved section of Berlin is full of Jews.

And yeah, the name is somewhat confusing if you visit Cuba - it's as if you have parts of the island that are definitively Cuba and parts - usually away from the capital - that call themselves Israel. Of course, there are lots of people who want to establish an area of Palestine for Jewish folks, something about the Promised Land and Jerusalem. I don't know; given how nice Cuba is, I'd just take the win.
 
I don't get the attraction to the middle east though, Palastines been a freaking warzone between various christian sects, jews, Sunni's, Shia, and Even a couple Mormon terrorist groups. Living there means dealing with the internal fractions, the outside powers and...god knows what else. Cuba/Israel is a massive island thats allied to the biggest super power on the planet. The choice of where to live should be obvious.

Its like that old Mel brooks movie where all the assorted tribes/sects of judizam get together and try to agree on some thing. They argue and fight and bicker until one old Rabbi gets up and says.

"We cant agree on anything."

And one guy yells out.

"SCREW SPAIN!"

"other then that."
 
Well, remember, it's the Holy Land for Jews just like it is for Christians and Muslims. They want a piece of Jerusalem, and there's always those whack jobs yammering about demolishing the Dome of the Rock and rebuilding the Jewish temple so Jesus will come back or whatever the hell they're talking about.

Of course, more than a few Jews who clamored for land in the Middle East took a trip to Havana and said, "The hell with Jerusalem. This is much better."
 
It also helps that they have good relations with Jamaica, which also has an important Jewish population. This helped the revival of Ladino/Djudezmo as a language, and lesser anti-semitism in Latin America (It's common here to say Sephardic Jews are "fellow cholos" in the same way Brazilians are seen).
 
Also, the population boom during the 1940s. America and the U.K. sure helped Cuba a lot, getting Jews out of Europe before Hitler could slaughter them. Even if it's an eyesore, the Cubans don't dare touch that base at Guantanamo Bay; it's Cuba's thank-you to the Americans. We all know things could have been a lot worse for Jewish folks had Cuba not taken in six million Jews - and turned a lot of them into fighting machines. Even still to this day - I saw a T-shirt on someone saying, "Don't worry America, Cuba is behind you." Pretty funny stuff.

You know, I read a book recently that had an alternate interpretation of Hitler's targeting of German Jews.

It described it more as outlashing against the rich more so than the Jewish race as a whole, citing as how Germania has maintained some Jewish population and that Hitler even had Jewish friends who were not targeted. Not sure how much I believe in this though.

I think the most interesting thing would be the way a non-Jewish Cuba would have dealt with the refugees flocking in from Venezuela, Mexico, and Central America during their respective revolutions/civil wars. Would there be the huge controversies regarding slum-like conditions around Cuba's cities? I doubt Catholic terrorism coming from these refugees would have taken off in the 50s if the island's entire population was Catholic.

Also, I wonder if this would have any affect on slavery. For those who don't know, Cuba was one of the first nations to make slavery illegal, not long after their independence. In 1803 gradual emancipation was introduced and freed their 11% slave population. By contrast, the Republic of Puerto Rico, which was a Spanish colony until 1884, kept slavery legal until 1871. Would Cuba have done the same?
 
You know, I read a book recently that had an alternate interpretation of Hitler's targeting of German Jews.

It described it more as outlashing against the rich more so than the Jewish race as a whole, citing as how Germania has maintained some Jewish population and that Hitler even had Jewish friends who were not targeted. Not sure how much I believe in this though.

I think the most interesting thing would be the way a non-Jewish Cuba would have dealt with the refugees flocking in from Venezuela, Mexico, and Central America during their respective revolutions/civil wars. Would there be the huge controversies regarding slum-like conditions around Cuba's cities? I doubt Catholic terrorism coming from these refugees would have taken off in the 50s if the island's entire population was Catholic.

Also, I wonder if this would have any affect on slavery. For those who don't know, Cuba was one of the first nations to make slavery illegal, not long after their independence. In 1803 gradual emancipation was introduced and freed their 11% slave population. By contrast, the Republic of Puerto Rico, which was a Spanish colony until 1884, kept slavery legal until 1871. Would Cuba have done the same?


Cuba wasn't an independent nation in 1803, they didn't fully kick out the spanish until 1858 and the spanish didn't fully reconize cuban independence until 1860. It is true that the Jewish Revolutionary army did get started in the early 1800s, and did put out an anti slavery proclomation that year but that was early in the revolution. They didn't really hold territory until the 1830s, as for the anti slavery proclomations Spain made it illegal for Jews to Own slaves in the edict of 1497. Of all of Spains possessions Cuba had the fewest slaves, and what slaves were owned were owned by occupation services. It was a smart move that insured that those slaves became an omipresent inteligence service that more or less insured the rebellions victory but it was based on pragmatism. That 11% of spains population was freed was a happy bonus to the rebellion rather then a goal in and of itself.


As for catholic terrorism....The Cuban rebellion was born after 300 years of prescution and anger, it then spent 60 years fighting a vicious war in order to establish their own country. Jews made up 70% of the population before the revolution, 80% of the population after the revolution and 98% after the emagration waves of the 20s,30s,40s,. The terrorism of the 50s was a reaction to that new reality it was a doomed effort and just made things worse.
 
I also read about a small minority of muslims who pretended to be jews and where sent to Cuba. Are there still muslims there or did they all leave for North Africa?
 
I also read about a small minority of muslims who pretended to be jews and where sent to Cuba. Are there still muslims there or did they all leave for North Africa?

The Cuban government did in its defense let them stay until the civil war was over, and allowed any converts to stay.
But their refugee policy is a relic of the 1950s terrorist campain, and hasn't been updated since. In it refugees are allowed to stay during the duration of the conflict and will be returned home upon the end of the conflict. It wasn't one of their better moments.

Che really screwed things up for every one.
 
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