DBWI: Could the Kushan have survived if they converted to Islam?

I've always been fascinated by the Kushan- the second ever and arguably the greatest explicitly Buddhist polity of late antiquity, headed by lightly hellenized Indo-Europeans from Central Asia- strange and wonderful architecture et cetera.

As such, I'm deeply interested in trying to extend their already considerable lifespan much more than it already was, especially because I just really like the modern nation of Kušan and want to wank the eponymous empire- so, what if they had converted to Islam? Instead of holding on to Buddhism and enduring attack after attack from the Dar-al-Islam until they were broken, they could've survived even longer and maybe even headed west, conquering the caliphate and making it a figure institution as the Buyids did (they were considerably greater).

Thoughts are appreciated?
 
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They probably would have survived longer, but expansion west seems unlikely- the Caliphate was quite powerful at that time. Expansion to the east is more probable. The greatest affect this would have would be a much earlier conversion of India to Islam, or at least West and Central India.
 
They probably would have survived longer, but expansion west seems unlikely- the Caliphate was quite powerful at that time. Expansion to the east is more probable. The greatest affect this would have would be a much earlier conversion of India to Islam, or at least West and Central India.

But had they converted to Islam, and whethered the anger of the hardcore buddhists in their empire, they would most certainly last unto the point where the Caliphate weakened from overextension.
 
I am unsure of what are you referring to. The Kushana Empire in India and Central Asia fragmented over three centuries and half before Islam even appeared.
When Islam appeared in the region, most of its successor states had been superseded by the Gupta and Sasanian empires (and their own successor states) or the Hephalites.
Islamic sources know an area called Tokharistan which preserves the Kushana memory, but, AFAIK, it was used exclusively in a geographical sense.
In all likelyhood, Tokharian ethnic identity and language in the former Kushana territory had diluted into assimilation long before Muhammad.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed that this is meant as DBWI.
 
I am unsure of what are you referring to. The Kushana Empire in India and Central Asia fragmented over three centuries and half before Islam even appeared.
When Islam appeared in the region, most of its successor states had been superseded by the Gupta and Sasanian empires (and their own successor states) or the Hephalites.
Islamic sources know an area called Tokharistan which preserves the Kushana memory, but, AFAIK, it was used exclusively in a geographical sense.
In all likelyhood, Tokharian ethnic identity and language in the former Kushana territory had diluted into assimilation long before Muhammad.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed that this is meant as DBWI.

OOC: Mayhaps you ought to delete this and prevent confusion.... Although it could serve as background information.
And to be fair, the modern Pashto language has it's roots in Bactrian and not Middle Persian, so maybe not totally dissapeared.
 
OOC: Mayhaps you ought to delete this and prevent confusion.... Although it could serve as background information.
And to be fair, the modern Pashto language has it's roots in Bactrian and not Middle Persian, so maybe not totally dissapeared.

OOC: Sorry again. I'll delete the comment if you say I should.
(Regarding Pashto, it is East Iranic. As far as I can tell, it has only a very distant relationship to Tokharian).
 
We read different sources clearly, and I'm not in the mood to argue them. Do you have something to contribute to the DBWI?

Yep. ;)

(In the DBWI):

It should be understood that, a this point, converting to Islam was notionally tantamount to submitting to the Caliph politically. So I don't think that the Kushana Empire could have withstood the Caliphate as a coherent entity even if its elite converted. But of course, the lasting legacy, in cultural terms, would be different.
IOTL, the Kushanas remained a recognizably distinct Buddhist minority with specific customs (and linguistic traits, in many areas) in a largely Muslim-majority society. They left a relatively minor imprint of the mainstream Islamic literature and culture that surrounded them.
Had they converted, they would have lost much cultural and ethnic distinctiveness, while contributing a much larger extent to the emerging Islamicate tradition, at least locally.
Buddhism may disappear from Central Asia and Western Hindustan; it may never establish itself among the Turks. Without the Dharmoghlovid Khaghanate, North Eurasia would be unrecognizable.
 
Yep. ;)

(In the DBWI):

It should be understood that, a this point, converting to Islam was notionally tantamount to submitting to the Caliph politically. So I don't think that the Kushana Empire could have withstood the Caliphate as a coherent entity even if its elite converted. But of course, the lasting legacy, in cultural terms, would be different.
IOTL, the Kushanas remained a recognizably distinct Buddhist minority with specific customs (and linguistic traits, in many areas) in a largely Muslim-majority society. They left a relatively minor imprint of the mainstream Islamic literature and culture that surrounded them.
Had they converted, they would have lost much cultural and ethnic distinctiveness, while contributing a much larger extent to the emerging Islamicate tradition, at least locally.
Buddhism may disappear from Central Asia and Western Hindustan; it may never establish itself among the Turks. Without the Dharmoghlovid Khaghanate, North Eurasia would be unrecognizable.
Do you think then that the Kushan conversion would lead to central Asia becoming Muslim? Surely the late Tang would, without pressure from constant Dharmoghlovid incursions, be able to assert their dominance over central Asia and avoid that violent collapse from losing the north- this may butterfly the great Horde, as there's no guarantee Temujin would still be born after Tang hegemony.

I think an interesting possibility might be a less Turkicized northeast and eastern europe. We know precious little about the cultures in the region between Sabar and Magyaria, save that they spoke a combination of finno-ugric and slavic languages- had they not been overrun by Muslim and Buddhist turks, they could survive, maybe even establish a civilization of their own in that region. They might even be a last bastion of a European indigenous paganism.

Tinriism would also probably dissapear- no dharmicization of the turks, no Tinri Sages preaching unity between the three faiths of the steppe. That would be a massive blow to our collective cultural heritage, in my opinion.
 
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