DBWI: Conservatives thought of as the "natural party of government" in the UK.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by King Jasper, Jun 12, 2019.

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  1. King Jasper Well-Known Member

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    From 1945 to 2000, in the United Kingdom, the Labour Party was in office for approximately 40 years, compared to the Tories' 25 years. This lead of course to the well-known phrase that Labour is the 'natural party of government.'

    So what would you need to change this? Maybe have Churchill make his comeback in the 1952 election? Lengthen the 1979 oil crisis into the eighties? What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  2. sarahz Well-Known Member

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    You would have to do something about the Liberal revival that cost the Conservatives the anti Labour vote in the South west, Wales and Scotland, but that of course would mean the Tories would have to support the Liberals core policies of Devolution and support for the Welsh language, and the Highland and Islands Development Board, or at least not be so strongly opposed to them. Being a Tory outside of parts of England was pretty much a minority event after they lost the plot on these issues. And as for any chance in Northern Ireland. You would have to get the rejectionist Unionists to stay out of the merger with the Tories and prevent the majority of the former official Unionist Party supporting the devolved administration. Once the Executive worked there was no chance of an English led party getting seats in Northern Ireland so that's all 18 irish seats gone, although it would be worse if the 3 shinners turned up, as it is with 5 SDLP, 2 Northern Ireland Liberal Party and 7 Progressive Unionists and a pro-Liberal Independent(Naomi Long) all with safe majorities there's no chance for them there either. So basically for the Tories to win these days Labour has to really screw up, horrendously. as it did in the Middle East in 1999. I don't think anything else would have persuaded the Liberals to have a confidence and supply deal with the Tories after the inconclusive result.
    Sadly for them after the 2004 election the effect of the war in Syria had worn off . and it was back to irrelevance. perhaps if they were either for or against action on climate change at the moment you cant tell, and it looks like in the next election voters are going to look for certainty rather than fence sitting. Its possible the Green Party might even get an MP.
     
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  3. MKD Well-Known Member

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    A pub somewhere in England, mid 20th century............

    Tories? Natural Party of Government? Give me a break! Their economic record is disastrous (Gold standard anyone?) , they always want to give their rich chums a tax cut and they have an odd obsession with wanting to sell everything off to their mates. As if a private company can run the gas board or the railways! Next you will be telling me people in china can make our steel or dig our coal. Madness.

    They even voted against the NHS and comprehensive schooling and the welfare state and council houses. We fought a war for that and they tried to shaft us. There is no way they would have taken us into the EEC either. None. They would have tried to hang on to our dying empire and re fight the war at every opportunity. They are wrong uns the lot of them. Look at the way they fawn over them right wing Yanks. Sell us out in an instant they would.

    Fair play Churchill won the war but that was on the backs of solid Labour administrators like Atlee and decent working class soldiers. Alone the Tories would have given in. Look at that bloody Halifax. Upper class chinless wonder. Bet he went to Eton.

    Every time they are in power they waste money on stupid tax cuts and then labour have to come back in and fix everything. They have cocked up every chance they have been given and the last time they were in power they had to go "cap in hand" to the IMF like some third world country. Shambolic. They don't even spend money on Policemen or the military anymore and god knows where we would be if Ernie Bevin hadn't pushed to develop our own bomb. Labour, time and again, have had to find money to keep up with the Soviets and keep us safe. The Tories think the USA will protect us. It took them 3 years the last time to work out what side they were on for gods sake! It is Labour keeping us safe with our independent deterrent.

    Mark my words they were a disaster last time and if they get back in it will be a disaster this time. I might emigrate to Australia if they get power. This country wont be worth livin
    g in.
     
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  4. King Jasper Well-Known Member

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    OOC: Don't turn this into a political flamewar, dude.
     
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  5. MKD Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what these words mean. Is this bad? If so that was not my intention. I was simply reflecting the general view of the prospects of a Labour Goverment expressed before 1997 and swapping the two parties names about. IF there had been a period of long Labour rule the media and voter influencers would have been very anti Conservatives leading to the kind of thoughts many had about Labour prior to 1997. I see absolutely no reason why the narrative would not be similar in the situation you describe.
     
  6. sarahz Well-Known Member

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    seems quite plausible to me, and in any case its a CHARECTER speaking.
     
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  7. Ramp-Rat Member and holder of the CMII. Donor

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    The problem is that the Conservatives are the “ natural party of government,” in England, so you need to change the number of seats given to Scotland. And the view of the Conservatives held North of the Border.

    RR.
     
  8. Maeglin Lómion

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    OOC: That's a recent thing. In 1951, Labour won most votes in England, and the Tories got the most votes in Scotland.
     
  9. white crowe Well-Known Member

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    The Conservatives? Which Conservatives? The British Unionists Party or the Four Nations League?

    I don't see how a party with such divergent ideological views could ever be coherent enough to be the natural party of Government. Maybe if the the party hadn't spilt over support for the Government's response to Nasser's nationalisation of the Suez Canal, they could have been able to win subsequently.
     
  10. Alexander the Average Anti-lion tamer

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    I think the best way to do this is to screw Labour in the 1950 election. OTL they were able to secure a slim but stable majority that let them let them set the agenda of postwar politics and allowed them to take the credit for Britain's postwar economic boom which, combined with the gradual Liberal resurgence at the expense of the Tories, led to their re-election in the 50s and 60s. Ideally the Tories are just short of a majority and have to turn to the Liberals for a coalition. As a result this ties the interests of the Liberals and Tories together and forces them to focus their attention on Labour instead of each other. Over time this coalition becomes permanent and instead of the Nat Libs rejoining the Liberals and Liberals fold into them. At the same time the factional differences within Labour that were smoothed over by being in government are exacerbated and after Bevan becomes leader of the opposition, as opposed to PM, Gaitskell and the right-wingers split off and form a moderate Social Democratic party which serves as a drain on the Labour vote in the same way that the Liberals were for the Tories IOTL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  11. CommanderVonBruning In command of the torpedo gunboat 'Blitz'

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    To reiterate a little what has already been said, the Liberals are key. They were on the verge of extinction through the '30s and '40s and if they ceased to exist entirely that means the Conservatives get a monopoly on economic liberalism. For example, Thatcher, Blair and Cable would end up Tories ITTL instead of Liberals. In OTL, there has been historically a lot of confusion as the Liberals and Conservatives share a lot of their economic policies, with social policies being the big divider. The 1993 election debates come to mind, "I agree with Ken" etc. People wondered exactly what Soames' Conservatives represented other than Liberal economics with harder right social politics. It was ironically only the Liberal-backed electoral reforms that saved the Tories that year - under FPTP the vote splitting would have wiped them out!

    So yes, wipe out the Liberals and the Conservatives get a big lifeline. They almost certainly get a ministry before the '50s are out, from which they could easily dominate the '60s. That would be interesting - would '60s counterculture be more extreme in the face of Conservative rather than Labour dominance, with more to rebel against?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  12. sarahz Well-Known Member

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    well in the Euros the Tories did better (slightly) in Scotland.
     
  13. MKD Well-Known Member

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    Factionalism and entryism has long been a weakness of the right wing. The way they have been infiltrated by the ultra right wing Mosleyists is embarrassing for a "major" political party.
     
  14. Thomas1195 Well-Known Member

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    They were eventually supplanted by the Liberals by 2001 as the second party. Whether this is a positive development or not, I don't know, but at least they are not anti-science like certain factions within the Tories.