DBWI: Communist Revolution started elsewhere than in the USA.

ASUKIRIK

Banned
Yeah, we all knew about Wilson's folly, that his attempt to intervene on the Entente's behalf on the First Great War ended up resulting in the first successful Communist Revolution in 1915, which very ironically, caused an almost-immediate stop in the First Great War in Europe as everyone immediately calls for white peace to each other as they realized that anyone of them could be next (and in Britain's case, the almost immediate need to pivot and defend British North America from the Communist Invasion).

Now, suppose the fuckups that lead the United States into a hotbed of Revolutionary Communism and Socialism never occurred, which nation/kingdom/empire could be the one falling into such Communist Revolt? Britain? France? Germany? Italy? Austro-Hungary? Ottoman Empire? Or the most unlikely of them? Russia?
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Well, a good POD could be having William McKinley assassinated successfully as his Vice President was one Theodore Roosevelt, who had a reputation as a bit of a progressive reformer (which was why he was shunted off to the VPhood in the first place).
 

CountDVB

Yeah, Teddy could’ve provided some of the reforms needed to stave off the growing anger. Although he did very good as the Secretary of Environment.

Russia is certainly an odd choice, but it wouldn’t be surprising in retrospect. It would probably be similar to what sorta happened with Mexico and some of the other Latin American countries that went communist. They had a strong man hold the movement together and be mired in corruption in part because of culture. However, while Mexico and the rest of Latin America overcame these problems through greater awareness (or another revolution as we see in the states that used to be Brazil), Russia would be bound by that strongman mentality because of how massive it is and population wise

Germany I could see it happening because of Karl Marx and France as well happening because of the old Paris Comune though Britain would be freaking out.

Kinda like how Britain replaced the USA regarding the special friendship with Japan. Granted, we got back at them by assisting China in becoming a constitutional monarchy (I know some of the more idealogical based comrades weren’t happy, but China was not ready for communism. Besides, the new monarch was highly sympathetic to communism and helped bring about the reforms. The monarchy now is more of a cultural pillar, which helps out a lot. In the US, the closest we have is the New American Dream... and I suppose the Universal Utilitarian Church and other faiths like the Quakers along with secular counterparts).

But yeah, it’s pretty much the New World, Western Africa, a few other nations and China, led by the USA.
 
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Whiteshore

Whiteshore

CountDVB said:
The monarchy now is more of a cultural pillar, which helps out a lot.
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It also helps that he is from the most prestigious bloodline in all of China, being a direct descendant of Confucius with his ancestors being the Duke Yansheng before becoming Emperor.
 

CountDVB

Whiteshore said:
It also helps that he is from the most prestigious bloodline in all of China, being a direct descendant of Confucius with his ancestors being the Duke Yansheng before becoming Emperor.
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Yeah, though Confucius ain’t example popular with China nowadays, having been replaced with Daoism and Mohism.
 
Dolan

Dolan

Banned
The ongoing Cold War between United Communist States of America against the Concert of Kings is pretty much shaping all human history past the American Unification War, or the Second Great War of 1930-1947.

The presence of Communist Hyperpower, who did not think twice to commit mass murder under the guise of Revolutionary Spirit did ironically caused Kings and Emperors of British, German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, Dutch, Belgian, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Ottoman, Persia, Siam, and Japan to arrange for peace between those nations and contain the Communist Menace, and thus The Concert of Kings was born. While many Communist-Apologists trying to downplay the bloodshed, the Communist Party USA alone is responsible for no less than 75 million deaths in the Americas due to both deliberate mass murders and also famine caused by mismanagement of the communal farms, the West African and Chinese monstrosity are even worse.

Yes, the fall of British North America is definitely the wake-up call needed for every decent human being to realize the monstrosity of the Communist Regime, at least those troubles in China and West Africa has been more or less contained.

I would bet that whatever nations found themselves unlucky enough to host the Cancer that was Communism, they would be facing the Entire World against them... Becoming pariah state that only knew violence to speak for itself.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Well, the French and Italian Republics are the main "neutral powers" of the world with the liberal-social democrat consensus in both Paris and Rome leading to them trying their best to be non-aligned meeting grounds between the communist Americans and the right-wing Concert of Kings (who range from right-wing democracies like Germany and Britain to the Black Hundreds dictatorship in Russia which is almost as totalitarian as the Americans if not worse with genocide committed against various "disloyal" ethnicities).
 
Dolan

Dolan

Banned
Whiteshore said:
Well, the French and Italian Republics are the main "neutral powers" of the world with the liberal-social democrat consensus in both Paris and Rome leading to them trying their best to be non-aligned meeting grounds between the communist Americans and the right-wing Concert of Kings (who range from right-wing democracies like Germany and Britain to the Black Hundreds dictatorship in Russia which is almost as totalitarian as the Americans if not worse with genocide committed against various "disloyal" ethnicities).
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Well, French is the *ideal* neutral and democratic republic, I admit that, but Italians only democratized themselves once the Fascists under Mussolini, who brutally murdered the Italian Royal family and forced The Pope to relocate to Madrid, is even more loathsome than the Communist America in some regards.

Current post-Fascist Italian Republic are pretty much democratic regime who tried to atone for their predecessor's sins however, but the Papacy have not yet feeling safe to return to Rome.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Dolan said:
Current post-Fascist Italian Republic are pretty much democratic regime who tried to atone for their predecessor's sins however, but the Papacy have not yet feeling safe to return to Rome.
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To be fair to the papacy, moderate socialists were a major component of the Italian Revolution which overthrew the fascists.
 

HIM Dogson

I think it's important to realize that WWI wasn't the cause of the Revolution in the US, it was the final straw. Large-scale strikes had been occurring in the US ever since Teddy Roosevelt, who had been running on a platform of taking on big business, was assassinated in 1912; the American situation had been spiraling out of control ever since and the country was in the hands of a detached elite who was unwilling to accept that the only way that they could have saved their power at all was to reform some. Their example, incidentally, was one of the primary factors that drove Nicholas II to reform the Russian Empire along more German lines, and that led to the pro-welfare consensus in the Monarchies. In any case, when Wilson, pressured by Congress, declared war on Germany so that the Proletariat would have a foreign enemy against which to direct their anger, it was the final straw.

Whiteshore said:
It also helps that he is from the most prestigious bloodline in all of China, being a direct descendant of Confucius with his ancestors being the Duke Yansheng before becoming Emperor.
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Really the idea that it would have been a problem at all is rooted in Marx's own Eurocentric assumptions; he comprehensively failed to understand the situation in Asia, and the Renmen Dynasty has proven him wrong.
 

ASUKIRIK

Banned
HIM Dogson said:
Really the idea that it would have been a problem at all is rooted in Marx's own Eurocentric assumptions; he comprehensively failed to understand the situation in Asia, and the Renmen Dynasty has proven him wrong.
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The failure of the Republic of China to also understood that Mandate of Heaven is still needed in highly-quasi-religious Chinese society is exactly why Emperor Fuzhi agreed to sit on the Forbidden City to continue "The Mandate of Heaven". Today the Renmen Dynasty, despite some of their faults and experiments on policies, are regarded highly within Chinese Society by their works to uplift the Chinese masses from poverty.

Meanwhile, the terror reign of President Robert Francis Kennedy is still the nightmare of everyone in Western Hemisphere and caused the word "President" to be the most loathed word in Europe, up to the point that France and Italy choose to rename their chief executive post as "Consul" instead of "President",
 
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HIM Dogson

ASUKIRIK said:
The failure of the Republic of China to also understood that Mandate of Heaven is still needed in highly-quasi-religious Chinese society is exactly why Emperor Runzhi agreed to sit on the Forbidden City to continue "The Mandate of Heaven" and named the dynasty that would be his as the Renmen instead of either using the ancient designation of his birthplace "Wan", or even using his original family name "Mao". The claim to be descendant of Confucious are indeed suspicious, but his argument about Liu Bang founded Han Dynasty by popular uprising is still a valid one, as today the Renmen Dynasty, despite some of their faults and experiments on policies, are regarded highly within Chinese Society by their works to uplift the Chinese masses from poverty.

Meanwhile, the terror reign of President Robert Francis Kennedy is still the nightmare of everyone in Western Hemisphere and caused the word "President" to be the most loathed word in Europe, up to the point that France and Italy choose to rename their chief executive post as "Consul" instead of "President",
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OOC: I think the Dukes of Yansheng were established as being Chinese Emperors, not Mao.

IC: Believe me, it's a nightmare to plenty of Americans too. The Watterson reforms were needed but they can't bring back the people dissapeared. It's only a few extreme authoritarians who view RFK's regime as anything other than a stain upon America and Communism.
 

Nivek

Very Hard, as Marx said, you need an industrial state to communist happen, and which else the one was #2(defacto #1 as britain learned the hard way) nation of earth at the time on industry? plus america have all the ingredients for this, a disfranchised population(double, with the racial tension the country used to have, i hate commies, but respect they ended jim crown and institutionalized racism, that a black man named Martin luther king was thei general secretary for a while show how the country evolved), a massive hyper capitalist class(even named robber barons among their population), you need a genius to defuse that time bomb...
 

Leon Trotsky

Banned
HIM Dogson said:
OOC: I think the Dukes of Yansheng were established as being Chinese Emperors, not Mao.

IC: Believe me, it's a nightmare to plenty of Americans too. The Watterson reforms were needed but they can't bring back the people dissapeared. It's only a few extreme authoritarians who view RFK's regime as anything other than a stain upon America and Communism.
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OOC: RFK of all people is the worst dictator in TTL's America? One would have expected someone to use Joe Steele again for this one.
 

ASUKIRIK

Banned
HIM Dogson said:
OOC: I think the Dukes of Yansheng were established as being Chinese Emperors, not Mao.
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OOC: oops my bad, edited.

Nivek said:
Very Hard, as Marx said, you need an industrial state to communist happen, and which else the one was #2(defacto #1 as britain learned the hard way) nation of earth at the time on industry?
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And with the unification of American Continents almost completed, the Communist America is indeed the potentially #1 in both industrial and agricultural output in the world, and I said that as *potentially*. RFK's reign of terror and the sheer destructiveness of the Brazilian Rebellion definitely put the United Americans back as #2 in Industrial output behind Russia now, with Britain and Germany being very close contenders.
 

Nivek

Whiteshore said:
OOC: No mention of actual leaders of the CPUSA or the SPA for this as well?
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OOC:i proposed MLK, maybe like a decent leader before RFK ruinned things for a while.

ASUKIRIK said:
And with the unification of American Continents almost completed, the Communist America is indeed the potentially #1 in both industrial and agricultural output in the world, and I said that as *potentially*. RFK's reign of terror and the sheer destructiveness of the Brazilian Rebellion definitely put the United Americans back as #2 in Industrial output behind Russia now, with Britain and Germany being very close contenders.
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Yeah RFK did almost broke a nation not even a racist secession war broke...what a mess he did...
 
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