DBWI:China didn't join the Soviet Union

The Chinese army arrested Yeltsin soonly after Gorbachev was forced to leave his seat. The popular votes in the SSRs after that made some of the SSRs like the Baltic states to leave USSR, but it's still the largest country in almost all aspects in the world. What would happen if China did't become a part of the USSR, for example Mao's later death perventing the civil war in China that makes it join the USSR? Would the USSR disslove by Yeltsin's coup?
OOC: The Sino-Soviet Union before Gorbachev (at least) includes USSR after WW2, Mongolia, Mainland China, north Korea, Indochina countries (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, maybe even Burma) and Afghanistan.
Baltic states, Moldova and the Caucasus countries leave USSR after the popular vote.
OOC and WI: What would the result of the popular vote be in Ukraine? I think the difference is too narrow to predict the result, they may or maynot leave the Soviet Union.
 
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OOC: Uhhh...no. This isn't happening in anything resembling OTL. Stalin had absolutely no interest in uniting the USSR with all those places. Turn them into vassal states, sure, but not integrate them into the country. There's a reason the Warsaw Pact states outside the USSR that the Soviets conquered on their way to Berlin never were impressed into the union.
 
OOC: Uhhh...no. This isn't happening in anything resembling OTL. Stalin had absolutely no interest in uniting the USSR with all those places. Turn them into vassal states, sure, but not integrate them into the country. There's a reason the Warsaw Pact states outside the USSR that the Soviets conquered on their way to Berlin never were impressed into the union.
OOC: Liu Shaoqi-leaded CPC decided to join USSR to let the Soviet army defeat the rebels and stop the chaos after Mao's death and Khrushchev agrees.
 
OOC: Liu Shaoqi-leaded CPC decided to join USSR to let the Soviet army defeat the rebels and stop the chaos after Mao's death and Khrushchev agrees.

OOC: Unless you have very good evidence that the CPC wanted this, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist, I'm calling BS. The Chinese were always worried about being dominated by the Soviets, and the Soviets were always fidgety about expanding the USSR and had deep-seated prejudices against Asians.
 
OOC: Unless you have very good evidence that the CPC wanted this, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist, I'm calling BS. The Chinese were always worried about being dominated by the Soviets, and the Soviets were always fidgety about expanding the USSR and had deep-seated prejudices against Asians.

OOC: I think he's using the OOC voice to describe what happened in the ATL that's supposed to serve as background for this scenario.
 
OOC: I think he's using the OOC voice to describe what happened in the ATL that's supposed to serve as background for this scenario.

OOC: I know. I'm saying I don't believe that's a plausible POD because I'm not aware of any point at which either side ever came close to considering it or even showed that they had enough common ground where they might have been willing to.
 
OOC: I know. I'm saying I don't believe that's a plausible POD because I'm not aware of any point at which either side ever came close to considering it or even showed that they had enough common ground where they might have been willing to.

OOC: Gotcha. And yeah, I agree, the whole premise is pretty crazy. I think you'd need an earlier POD, where for example Russia really kicks ass in the Russo-Japanese War, outright conquers the Korean peninsula and Manchuria(if that was even among their war aims, I don't know), and that gives them a foot-in-the-door to eventual annexation of all of China. But that would likely butterfly away the Soviet-era history which seems to underlie the OP's scenario.
 
OOC: I know. I'm saying I don't believe that's a plausible POD because I'm not aware of any point at which either side ever came close to considering it or even showed that they had enough common ground where they might have been willing to.

OOC: It doesn't matter if its Plausible its a DBWI
Japan and Russia would never unite into one country but their is a DBWI thread about it here
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/dbwi-no-russo-japanese-union.416062/
Its the point of a DBWI to look at OTL from the eyes of someone of a different universe
 
OOC: I think the main issue is there being a lot of OOC in the first post. Something like this is build upon a group building up the history with each other in a reasonable manner. If people are boxed in they don't have that ability.
 
OOC: There is such a thing as ASB DBWI's. If it's in post-1900, plausibility rules still apply.
OOC:I want to make it plausible…… but you know, it's too hard……
At least almost nobody successfully predicted the dissolution of the Soviet Union, so I think sort of implausibility should be tolerated.
And I don't want too much responses only filled with OOC.
 
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OOC: Kinda ASB since some of the countries you mentioned would rather die than join USSR even though they're also communism. But for the sake of this thread...

IC: I guess first and foremost you could have Stalin defeat Trotsky during the power struggle, his "socialism in one country" idea pretty much focus on Russia and only Russia.
Without Trotskyism ingrained into every aspect of the USSR, the unstable big blob of red on the map right now would never have come into existance
 
The whole thing was a mistake. A biiiig mistake. The sheer amount of people who moved from the Chineses SSR and their dozen or two ASSRs to Europe really frightened people and caused a backlash. Made all those right wing claims of the Soviets being an Asiatic horde seem to be true. Decades of political cartoons of Khans wherein get the red star of a commissar on their hats... Any attempt to expell Asians from Eastern Europe would cause the Chinese portion of the Union to violently crush the secessionists. Russians, Chinese, Koreans, Ukrainians, Kazaks... The borders of the SSRS got a lot less clear with those population movements. Plus the sheer amount dissidents, prisoners-of-war and untrustworthy national groups being shipped into the south-eastern Soviet areas meant that Estonians, Poles, Lithuanians, Romanians, and Georgians could only hope to be a plurality. Yah, I know not all of those were officially in the Soviet Union, but when there were labor shortages they moved some people into those states to fix things up. They never really left after that.
 
OOC: It is possible to do this with a decision, right after the Russian Revolution, that all Communist countries belong to the same federation, until eventually the entire Earth is one Communist country. You probably need Trotsky to win out against Stalin for this, and even Trotsky didn't favor this. Mongolia would have been part of this union from the start. But this is worth exploring in itself, and the butterflies might be enough to prevent a Communist victory in China.
 
OOC: It is possible to do this with a decision, right after the Russian Revolution, that all Communist countries belong to the same federation, until eventually the entire Earth is one Communist country. You probably need Trotsky to win out against Stalin for this, and even Trotsky didn't favor this. Mongolia would have been part of this union from the start. But this is worth exploring in itself, and the butterflies might be enough to prevent a Communist victory in China.
:confused:
 
OOC: It is possible to do this with a decision, right after the Russian Revolution, that all Communist countries belong to the same federation, until eventually the entire Earth is one Communist country. You probably need Trotsky to win out against Stalin for this, and even Trotsky didn't favor this. Mongolia would have been part of this union from the start. But this is worth exploring in itself, and the butterflies might be enough to prevent a Communist victory in China.

OOC: Such a rule would kill the chances of Communist parties coming to power anywhere, electorally or by armed force. Because almost no one is going to support their local Communist party if victory means they automatically become citizens of another country.
 
OOC: It is possible to do this with a decision, right after the Russian Revolution, that all Communist countries belong to the same federation, until eventually the entire Earth is one Communist country. You probably need Trotsky to win out against Stalin for this, and even Trotsky didn't favor this. Mongolia would have been part of this union from the start. But this is worth exploring in itself, and the butterflies might be enough to prevent a Communist victory in China.

Its really not though, chinese communists legitimised themselves by throwing out the foreigners. Integrating themselves into a federation with a European state who had an active role in visiting humiliations on China would crush the credibility of the relevant political group, communist or otherwise. China would also be the tail wagging the dog because of its size. Even broken up, the Chinese would be over represented and basically in control which noone in the USSR would ever want.
 
Its really not though, chinese communists legitimised themselves by throwing out the foreigners. Integrating themselves into a federation with a European state who had an active role in visiting humiliations on China would crush the credibility of the relevant political group, communist or otherwise. China would also be the tail wagging the dog because of its size. Even broken up, the Chinese would be over represented and basically in control which noone in the USSR would ever want.

OOC: Yes. One of the points made about developing-world Communism in the 20th Century was that it was as often as not a vehicle, if not an outright front, for nationalism. That aspect of its appeal is completely obliterated if you make it a policy that all Communist countries have to become part of a global federation.

Admittedly, such hyper-globalism would probably be closer to what Communism was originally supposed to be like, but it would be completely antithetical to the way the ideology was actually developing in reality.
 
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